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gh-58211: Add tests for __self__ attribute of builtins functions #113575

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gh-58211: Add tests for __self__ attribute of builtins functions #113575

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@adorilson adorilson commented Dec 29, 2023 •
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Although there was an inconclusive discussion in #58211, this PR adds tests to __self__ in built-in callables as it work currently.

If was accepted, after PR #113574 is merged we can fix the documentation too (just avoid conflict).

adorilson and others added 3 commits December 29, 2023 19:34
@adorilson
Doc: Fix the array.fromfile method doc
82958e3 
The check about the f argument type was removed in this commit:
python@2c94aa5

Thanks for Pedro Arthur Duarte (pedroarthur.jedi at gmail.com) by the help with
this bug.
@vstinner @adorilson
pythongh-106320: Remove private _PyInterpreterState functions (python…
c178bdb 
…#106335)

Remove private _PyThreadState and _PyInterpreterState C API
functions: move them to the internal C API (pycore_pystate.h and
pycore_interp.h). Don't export most of these functions anymore, but
still export functions used by tests.

Remove _PyThreadState_Prealloc() and _PyThreadState_Init() from the C
API, but keep it in the stable API.
@adorilson
Add builtin functions/methods __self__ test
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@bedevere-app bedevere-app bot added tests Tests in the Lib/test dir awaiting review labels Dec 29, 2023
@bedevere-app bedevere-app bot mentioned this pull request Dec 29, 2023
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@adorilson adorilson mentioned this pull request Jan 1, 2024
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AlexWaygood
AlexWaygood reviewed Jan 1, 2024
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This appears to me to go in the opposite direction to the consensus in #58211 -- the consensus seems to me to be that this is a misfeature that could only be confusing. That doesn't mean that we should necessarily bother changing the current behaviour unless it's actually causing a bug for somebody. But we should only add tests for things which are working in a desirable way currently -- we shouldn't cement undesirable behaviour by adding tests for it.

I'm therefore doubtful that this PR is a good idea. Instead, as I suggested in #113574 (comment), I think we should fix the documentation so that it is more vague about what the value of this attribute might be for builtin functions.

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we shouldn't cement undesirable behaviour by adding tests for it.

Yes, I agree. (Although I'm the PR author). The big problem is where desirable behaviour is defined.
I found a PEP concern about this but didn't find it. Do you know if it exists?

Furthermore, ignoring other necessary knowledge, I think of the self as the member's owner. So, thinking about the module as the built-in functions' owner was natural.

I'm therefore doubtful that this PR is a good idea. Instead, as I suggested in #113574 (comment), I think we should fix the documentation so that it is more vague about what the value of this attribute might be for builtin functions.

I don't know if this is a good idea. I guess not.

Maybe it is better to remove this attribute from the documentation. Seeing the Terry's comment, the bug is not only the __self__ value but their own existence. In this sense, we already have been cementing undesirable behaviour.

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There is a code in inspect or pydoc to work around this "feature". There may be a third-party code or even code in the stdlib that depends on this feature. If we even change this in future, it is better to have explicit tests that will fail, so this change will not pass unnoticed as a side effect of other changes. We can make these tests running only on CPython, and add comments explaining this.

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If we even change this in future, it is better to have explicit tests that will fail, so this change will not pass unnoticed as a side effect of other changes. We can make these tests running only on CPython, and add comments explaining this.

Do you mean:

  1. Considering this PR
  2. Keeping in documentation __self__ is set to None (because it is the desirable behaviour)
  3. Adding in documentation a impl-detail directive: Currently, CPython returns the module object where the built-in function is defined, but it can change in the future.

?

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I meant considering this PR.

@serhiy-storchaka serhiy-storchaka added skip news needs backport to 3.11 bug and security fixes needs backport to 3.12 bug and security fixes labels Jan 2, 2024
@serhiy-storchaka serhiy-storchaka changed the title gh-58211 Add builtins callables tests gh-58211: Add tests for __self__ attribute of builtins functions Jan 2, 2024
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