Highlighted Posts

Categorize a post as Highlight to add it to this section.

Seeking Feedback on Annual Meetup Survey for 2021-2022

We are preparing the Annual MeetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. Surveys and would value your feedback on the draft survey questions. Excitingly, for the first time in WordPress history we will distribute the surveys in several different languages! This will enable many more meetup organizers and attendees to respond to the survey. The previous two years, we sent out the survey by the end of Q1 (first quarter of the year). We are behind this schedule, so the survey will cover 2021 and 2022 year-to-date.

Below are the draft survey questions, which are adapted from last year:

Key objectives of these surveys:

  1. Get current information and feedback from organizers about what they need to be successful, particularly as they continue to adapt to the pandemic and look to return to in-person events;
  2. Get current information and feedback from attendees about how meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. can best support their participation, particularly in the context of the pandemic and the return to in-person events;
  3. Measure the baseline of where we are today, in the hopes that we can ask the same questions next year and measure our impact.

With these objectives in mind, please comment on this post or make suggestions on the above documents if:

  • Any questions could be revised
  • Any questions should be removed
  • There any additional questions we can ask

The working documents and comments on this post will remain open through 26 May 2022, in order to have adequate time to prepare the survey for translation at WCEUWCEU WordCamp Europe. The European flagship WordCamp event. Contributor DayContributor Day Contributor Days are standalone days, frequently held before or after WordCamps but they can also happen at any time. They are events where people get together to work on various areas of https://make.wordpress.org/ There are many teams that people can participate in, each with a different focus. https://2017.us.wordcamp.org/contributor-day/ https://make.wordpress.org/support/handbook/getting-started/getting-started-at-a-contributor-day/. on 02 June 2022. We plan to send out the surveys by the end of June 2022.

#meetups, #annual-survey

Meetup Organizer Newsletter: May 2022

Hello, organizers!

Welcome to the new format we are trying out for the Monthly MeetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. Newsletter. Our goal with this new format is to continue to provide useful information to support your meetup, simply in a new way. 

This Month in WordPress

As usual, WordPress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ was busy in April.

Find out more about these, the new COVID-19 guidelines, and everything else that made the April edition.

WCEUWCEU WordCamp Europe. The European flagship WordCamp event. is Just Around the Corner

WCEU has a lot to celebrate this June 2-4 with both its 10th Anniversary and the return to in-person events. Fortunately for you and your community, tickets are still available!

Can’t travel yet, or that far? You (and your meetup) can watch the WCEU live stream right from wherever you are.

And as always, keep an eye on the  WordCamp CentralWordCamp Central Website for all WordCamp activities globally. https://central.wordcamp.org includes a list of upcoming and past camp with links to each. schedule. New events are rolling in.

WordPress’s 19th Birthday

Looking for a great way to kick off in person meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook.? Consider having a WordPress birthday party on – or around – May 27.

Coming together to celebrate the 19th birthday of WordPress is a fun and relaxed way to meet old and new friends. Take pictures. Have treats. Maybe play a game (trivia? bingo?) or share what brought you all to WordPress.

Whatever you choose, please share your celebration with all of us in the comments below the newsletter and using the hashtag #WP19Day on social media.

If you need a little inspiration, check out the ideas David Bisset has pulled together at wp19.day. This unofficial, community-focused celebration of WordPress has a variety of opportunities to celebrate either as an individual or a community. What a great way to introduce your meetup to the larger WordPress community.

Wondering about the big 2-0 in 2023? WordPress.org already has official plans in the works for next year’s 20th birthday celebration. More to come!!


If you have any questions, Community Team deputiesDeputy Community Deputies are a team of people all over the world who review WordCamp and Meetup applications, interview lead organizers, and generally keep things moving at WordCamp Central. Find more about deputies in our Community Deputy Handbook. are here to help. Please email us at support@wordcamp.org or join the #community-events SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. channel. Thanks for everything you do to grow and support the WordPress community—let’s keep sharing knowledge and inspiring each other with our contributions!

See you online soon!

The following people contributed to this edition of the Meetup newsletter: @rmartinezduqueue @mysweetcate @_dorsvenabili @dansoschin

#community-team, #meetup-organizer-newsletter, #newsletter

WordCamp Europe 2022 Contributor Day: Plans for the Community Team Table

WordCamp Europe 2022 kicks off in exactly two weeks, and the Community Team will make its (strong) presence felt at the contributor day on June 2! 💪 WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. Europe, WordCamp US, and WordCamp Asia are what we consider flagship events and are always a great opportunity for teams to get together, contribute, and onboard more people. Several members of our community will be present, and it will be a great time to make the most out of our time to work on our team’s goals for 2022, together, in-person.

The WCEUWCEU WordCamp Europe. The European flagship WordCamp event. contributor dayContributor Day Contributor Days are standalone days, frequently held before or after WordCamps but they can also happen at any time. They are events where people get together to work on various areas of https://make.wordpress.org/ There are many teams that people can participate in, each with a different focus. https://2017.us.wordcamp.org/contributor-day/ https://make.wordpress.org/support/handbook/getting-started/getting-started-at-a-contributor-day/. in 2022 is special, as it will be our first flagship WordCamp (and our first large contributor day event) after two years!

Over the past few weeks, Community Team members discussed several interesting ideas for the contributor day; it was in fact an agenda item at the Community Team chat for May 2022. As a result of these discussions, our team has decided on some exciting ideas. I am excited to share the WCEU 2022 Contributor Day plans for our team!

Tasks for experienced contributors

  • Hold an in-person DeputyDeputy Community Deputies are a team of people all over the world who review WordCamp and Meetup applications, interview lead organizers, and generally keep things moving at WordCamp Central. Find more about deputies in our Community Deputy Handbook. Training/Orientation session for those community members that wish to be deputiesDeputy Community Deputies are a team of people all over the world who review WordCamp and Meetup applications, interview lead organizers, and generally keep things moving at WordCamp Central. Find more about deputies in our Community Deputy Handbook.. See:
  • Organize an in-person Training session for MentorsMentor Someone who has already organised a WordCamp and has time to meet with their assigned mentee every 2 weeks, they talk over where they should be in their timeline, help them to identify their issues, and also identify solutions for their issues., covering things like good practices, how to check-in, resources, etc. See:
  • Organize orientations for WordPress Events, including:
    • New WordCamp Orientations
    • New MeetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. Orientations
    • New do_actiondo_action do_action hackathons are community-organised events that are focussed on using WordPress to give deserving charitable organisations their own online presence. Learn more on doaction.org. Hackathon orientations
  • Organize a Vetting sprint for new meetup/WordCamp/do_action applications.

Tasks for all contributors

  • Participate in a discussion on the tools we need to properly organize and market WordCamps.
  • Join a discussion on outreach strategies that will help reactivate inactive Meetup Organizers, involving experienced organizers as much as possible.
  • Be a part of brainstorming sessions/discussions to share experiences/good tips for Meetup/WordCamp organizers
  • Members of the #WPDiversity team are planning a roundtable – join them. You can also help out the team with translating their documentation into local languages.
  • Review and update our Handbooks, and help translate them to local languages.

If you are attending WordCamp Europe 2022 and have registered for the Contributor Day, we warmly welcome you to the Community Team table and look forward to contributing back to the community team together. Let us have a blast, at Porto!

#contributor-day, #wceu

X-post: What’s new on LearnWP in April 2022

X-comment from +make.wordpress.org/updates: Comment on What's new on LearnWP in April 2022

Recap of the Diverse Speaker Training group (#WPDiversity) AMER/EMEA and APAC on May 11 and 12, 2022

AMER/EMEA Attending: @jillbinder, @jasonnickerson, @katiejrichards, @kcrockett, @onealtr, @planningwrite, @volkswagenchick

AMER/EMEA Attended by proxy: @juliarosia

AMER/EMEA Facilitator: @katiejrichards

APAC Attending: @onealtr, @nukaga, @kharissulistiyono

APAC Facilitator: @onealtr

AMER/EMEA Start: https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C037W5S7X/p1652288415642899

APAC Start: https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C037W5S7X/p1652324525397099

Summary

1 Check-ins (everyone)

2 First time here

3 Comments, questions, ideas (anyone)

@jillbinder got feedback on titles for women speaker workshop in India

4 Recent workshops (Speaker & Inclusion) (@jillbinder)

Reports on:

– May 10, 2022 – Organizing Diverse & Inclusive WordPress Events discussion

– April 14, 2022 – Allyship for WP Event Organizers Discussion and Accountability

– April 24, 2022 – How to Own Your Expertise & Start Speaking at Nigeria WordPress MeetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook.

5 Upcoming workshops (Speaker & Inclusion) (@jillbinder)

– May 14, 2022 – Organizing Diverse & Inclusive WordPress Events discussion

6 Diverse Speaker Support channel (@kcrockett, @juliarosia, @jasonnickerson, @jillbinder)

– 10 wins in April
– Prompts are going well
@jasonnickerson joining as Speaker MentorMentor Someone who has already organised a WordCamp and has time to meet with their assigned mentee every 2 weeks, they talk over where they should be in their timeline, help them to identify their issues, and also identify solutions for their issues. Coordinator

7 DEI plans for WordPress events (@julia)

– The Community Team will be hosting a writing sprint from May 23 to May

@planningwrite is working on an ongoing sponsorship plan for underrepresented speakers to travel to WCUSWCUS WordCamp US. The US flagship WordCamp event. and for other WP events beyond WCUS that incorporates different resources, including ours

8 APAC (@onealtr and @devinmaeztri)

#WPDiversity APAC meeting is set for 0300H UTC starting this week on Thursday, May 12, 2022

– The first WPDiversity APAC meeting had three attendees, from The Philippines, Indonesia and Japan. 

– Jungko of Japan announced that they will be holding a Diverse Speaker Training workshop on May 14

9 Other Updates + Next week’s meeting facilitator (anyone)

AMER/EMEA End: https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C037W5S7X/p1652292044649089APAC End: https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C037W5S7X/p1652328240748979

New #WPDiversity APAC Meeting Schedule Announcement

The votes from the post about the WPDiversity Expanding to APAC are in and the schedule is set for:

This is shortly after the AMER/EMEA meeting so some updates will be the same but we will also focus on activities that are held in the APAC region such as planning for WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. Asia 2023.

Please join us (@onealtr and @devinmaeztri) and invite more volunteers to make their voices heard.

#wpdiversity

Join the Community Team for a #WPDiversity Writing Sprint: May 23 to May 30

Tl;dr: The Community Team is launching a one-week writing sprint from Monday, May 23 through Monday, May 30, 2022. You are invited to contribute, or even just watch. Every contribution, however small, is valuable!

Open sourceOpen Source Open Source denotes software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified. Open Source **must be** delivered via a licensing model, see GPL. communities thrive on collaboration, transparency, empowerment and collective ownership. Writing sprints put these values into action. This post describes the upcoming writing sprint and how you can contribute.

What is a writing sprint?

In a writing sprint, community contributors work together, in the open and across time zones, to develop new materials or refine existing materials. The purpose of this upcoming sprint is to create materials that will support WordPress event organizers in creating diverse and inclusive events. The materials created during this sprint will be shared with new and existing meetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook., WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more., and do_actiondo_action do_action hackathons are community-organised events that are focussed on using WordPress to give deserving charitable organisations their own online presence. Learn more on doaction.org. organizers, as described in this proposal: Steps to Integrate #WPDiversity into WordPress Event Organizing.

During the sprint, we will create the following materials:

  1. Self-paced lessons on creating welcoming and inclusive WordPress events, designed for a global audience. These lessons will be made available on learn.wordpress.org as part of the WordCamp Organizer Training and Meetup Organizer Training courses.
  2. Email templates to send to new and existing WordPress event organizers
  3. Additions to orientation scripts for WordPress event organizers

What skills would be useful? Any of the following:

  • Passion for creating inclusive, diverse spaces
  • Comfort writing and/or editing text for clarity, brevity, tone, and language accessibilityAccessibility Accessibility (commonly shortened to a11y) refers to the design of products, devices, services, or environments for people with disabilities. The concept of accessible design ensures both “direct access” (i.e. unassisted) and “indirect access” meaning compatibility with a person’s assistive technology (for example, computer screen readers). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility)
  • Familiarity with crafting educational materials
  • A global perspective: recognition that diverse and inclusive spaces look different in different parts of the world

How do I participate in the writing sprint?

  • Save the date: May 23-30, with an optional kick-off in the #community-team channel on May 23 from 17:00 UTC-18:00 UTC.
  • Anyone can participate!
  • Document & Contributor Tracker: We will use this sheet as a base, and work in separate Google Docs for each document. Please log all your contributions in the tracker, along with any relevant notes.
  • Google Docs: email templates, orientation script, learning module
  • The team will also coordinate together in the #community-team channel. I will be available here throughout the week to answer questions and help coordinate contributors.

Are you going to participate? Comment below! These materials will support WordPress event organizers and help shape diverse and inclusive WordPress events now and in the years to come.

#documentation-sprint #sprint #wpdiversity

#documentation-sprint, #sprint, #wpdiversity

Report: Allyship and Diverse Speaker Workshops April 2022

In April 2022 we held an Allyship discussion, particularly for WCEUWCEU WordCamp Europe. The European flagship WordCamp event. and WCUSWCUS WordCamp US. The US flagship WordCamp event. organizers. We also held a speaker workshop for Nigeria.

April 2022

Allyship for WP Event Organizers Discussion and Accountability – April 14, 2022

Facilitators: @jillbinder, @onealtr, @juliarosia

A 1.5 hour, hands-on, interactive workshop for people who have been thinking about speaking at WordPress MeetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. in Nigeria.

Number who attended: 18
From number of cities: 18
From number of countries: 7 (Canada, Greece, Netherlands, Philippines, Portugal, Spain, and United States)

How to Own Your Expertise & Start Speaking at Nigeria WordPress Meetups – April 24, 2022

Facilitator: @jillbinder

A discussion on creating welcoming and inclusive events. People were asked to bring what they’ve tried and how it has gone, ideas they are considering, and any questions. 

Number who attended: 38 (live or watched recording after)
From number of cities: 12
From number of countries: 4 (Indonesia, Nigeria, Rwanda, United States)
Self-report increase in public speaking confidence after taking the workshops: 40%

Testimonials

“My public speaking fear has reduced! The organizers were friendly and understanding. I give this workshop a 5 star rating.”
— Web Developer, Nigeria

“The session was excellently packaged.”
— Onose Oghenevwogaga, WordPress MeetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. Organizer, Warri, Nigeria

“The facilitators gave us ideas on how topics can be generated and how we can speak on what we love to do best or what we do best. This approach of explaining and brainstorming idea with us made me feel comfortable in getting started with public speaking.”
— ALABI, Abdulhafeez, WordPress Design & Project Manager, Kaduna, Nigeria

“This session has helped to dispel my fear of feeling like I don’t know enough to give a talk.”

“My fear of public speaking is broken!”

diverse-speaker-support channel

We have a SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. channel in the Make WordPress Slack for:

  • workshopping talks with each other and with mentorsMentor Someone who has already organised a WordCamp and has time to meet with their assigned mentee every 2 weeks, they talk over where they should be in their timeline, help them to identify their issues, and also identify solutions for their issues.
  • finding out about WordPress speaking opportunities from WordPress Meetups and WordCamps
  • getting to know other WordPress speakers and organizers

Number of past #WPDiversity Workshop participants who joined in April: 4

In our first month of focusing on community engagement in the channel (lead by @juliarosia and @kcrockett), conversations and wins have been taking off!

Wins this month: 10!

  • 5 members applied to speak at WCUS
  • 1 member applied to give a workshop at WCUS
  • 2 members got feedback on their WCUS applications and outlines from the channel
  • 1 spoke at an in-person WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more.
  • 1 got accepted to speak at another WordPress-related online conference

Thank you

A lot of people contribute to making these workshops successful. Thank you to each and every one!


Upcoming: May 2022

Organizing Diverse & Inclusive WordPress Events

(Was: Allyship for WP Event Organizers)

Join us Tuesday, May 10, 2022 or Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 2pm-3pm Eastern (6pm-7pm UTC) for a discussion of videos on Learn WordPress. This discussion is for WP event organizers and contributors. The focus will be on what actions you can take now.

Register on Eventbrite 

WPDiversity is Expanding to APAC!

Members of the #WPDiversity team are starting up a second meeting that will be more accessible to those in the APAC time zones. The first meeting will be Thursday, May 12, 2022.

Read more and express your interest here: https://make.wordpress.org/community/2022/04/22/wpdiversity-is-expanding-to-apac/

#diversespeakerworkshopsreports, #wpdiversity

Community Team Meeting Agenda for 2022-05-05

Hello friends! I would like to welcome you to the latest edition of the community team chat, being held on May 5, 2022!

As you know, the meeting is meant for all contributors on the team and everyone who is interested in taking part in some of the things our team does. Feel free to join us, even if you are not currently active in the team!

You will find a preliminary agenda for the meeting below. If you wish to add points to discuss, comment on this post or reach out to one of the team reps: @harishanker or @samsuresh. It does not need to be a blog post yet, the topic can be discussed during the meeting nevertheless. We use the same agenda for both meetings.

DeputyDeputy Community Deputies are a team of people all over the world who review WordCamp and Meetup applications, interview lead organizers, and generally keep things moving at WordCamp Central. Find more about deputies in our Community Deputy Handbook. / MentorMentor Someone who has already organised a WordCamp and has time to meet with their assigned mentee every 2 weeks, they talk over where they should be in their timeline, help them to identify their issues, and also identify solutions for their issues. / Contributor check-ins

What have you been doing and how is it going? What did you accomplish after the last meeting? Are there any blockers? Can other team members help you in some way?

Highlights

Announcement: Updated COVID-19 guidelines for official WordPress events
Last week, @angelasjin published a post in the Make/Community blog announcing the latest guidelines for in-person WordPress events all over the world. According to the latest guidelines, community organizers all over the world can now organize in-person WordPress events, following local laws and safety measures.

WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. Europe 2022 Contributor DayContributor Day Contributor Days are standalone days, frequently held before or after WordCamps but they can also happen at any time. They are events where people get together to work on various areas of https://make.wordpress.org/ There are many teams that people can participate in, each with a different focus. https://2017.us.wordcamp.org/contributor-day/ https://make.wordpress.org/support/handbook/getting-started/getting-started-at-a-contributor-day/.
Continuing the conversation from the last community team chat, our team still has not decided a plan of action for the our contributor day at WordCamp Europe 2022. I invite all of you to share your ideas on what we can do as a team for the contributor day. Please share your ideas!

Discussions

Return to In-Person Events: Share Your Challenges
@mysweetcate kicked-off a discussion post, encouraging community organizers to share more on what is keeping you from either organizing or attending an in-person event. 

Blog Posts and Announcements

Meetup Organizer Newsletter: April 2022
Don’t miss the WordPress MeetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. Newsletter for April 2022. 

WPDiversity is Expanding to APAC!
Members of the #WPDiversity team are starting up a second meeting that will be more accessible to those in the APAC time zones. The meeting will be held in parallel with the AMER/EMEA meetings on Thursday of the 2nd and 4th week of the month. Please comment on this post with your WordPress SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. name to indicate that you are interested in joining the meetings.

Updates from the Diverse Speaker Training Group

Open floor

Here is your chance to bring things into discussions that weren’t on the meeting agenda. You can also use this opportunity to share anything that you want with the team. If you have a topic in mind before the meeting, please add it to the comments of this post, we will update the agenda accordingly.

Hope to see you on Thursday, either on Asia-Pacific / EMEA or Americas friendly version of the meeting!

#meeting-agenda, #team-meeting

Recap of the Diverse Speaker Training group (#WPDiversity) on April 25, 2022

Attending: @jillbinder, @katiejrichards, @kcrockett, @onealtr, @sc0ttkclark, @tantienhime, @volkswagenchick

Attended by proxy: @devinmaeztri, @juliarosia, @angelasjin, @planningwrite

Facilitator: @onealtr

Start: https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C037W5S7X/p1651078819539489

Summary

1 Check-ins (everyone)

2 First time here

3 Comments, questions, ideas

  • We talked about holding a prep session for the speakers accepted to WCUSWCUS WordCamp US. The US flagship WordCamp event. from the #diverse-speaker-support channel.

4 Workshops (Speaker & Allyship) (@jillbinder)

  • Nigeria Speaker Workshop, April 24, 2022 went quite well
  • Allyship discussion, April 14, 2022 went quite well
  • We are renaming our Allyship workshops from “Allyship for WP Event Organizers” to “Organizing Diverse & Inclusive WordPress Events.”
  • We created the May 2022 (Cohort 3) Inclusion Workshops to be a good format for the WCUS organizers: May 10 & 14, 2022 for an hour each (also invited: All event organizers and contributors, speaker mentorsMentor Someone who has already organised a WordCamp and has time to meet with their assigned mentee every 2 weeks, they talk over where they should be in their timeline, help them to identify their issues, and also identify solutions for their issues. in the #diverse-speaker-support channel)

5 Diverse Speaker Support channel (@kcrockett & @jillbinder)

  • The new workflows and prompts have been going well. Organic conversations have begun!

6 Translations (@jillbinder for @devinmaeztri)

  • The Portuguese BR Lesson Plan has been uploaded!
  • In progress: Italian and French
  • First thoughts are going into Inclusion workshop localization, starting with Italian

7 DEI plans for WordPress events (@jillbinder for @juliarosia, @angelasjin, @planningwrite)

8 APAC (@onealtr)

9 Other Updates + Next week’s meeting chair


End: https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C037W5S7X/p1651082620410069