User talk:WikiOriginal-9

DYK for Gil Mains

On 21 April 2026, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Gil Mains, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that American football player Gil Mains flew feetfirst into opponents? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Gil Mains. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Gil Mains), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Just another day

• Buffalo Toronto Public Media reported in 2019 that Fontana was retiring after 22 years on the council. The same reporting stated that Bryan Bollman would succeed him in the Lovejoy District.
• SUNY later listed Fontana among the notable alumni of Buffalo State College.
• Local reporting on Fontana's departure from office described him as part of the Common Council's "institutional memory." Buffalo Toronto Public Media also quoted a longtime neighborhood figure who said that Fontana had been a constant presence in Lovejoy since the late 1990s.

This type of language is pretty consistently AI slop, right? JTtheOG (talk) 20:51, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Probably, I honestly just assume everyone is using AI unless I find typos. I always have typos when I write longer articles. I know I sound like a broken record at this point. At least someone admitted to using AI today. I hate when people lie about it. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:15, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, been there a few times as well. The whole cat-and-mouse game is exhausting. JTtheOG (talk) 21:16, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

@JTtheOG: Wikipedia:Do not lie about AI might be a helpful essay for you. I was "stalking" your edits (hope you don't mind) and noticed this. Of course, everyone claims they only use it for copyediting. I'm still skeptical when people say that lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:22, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Don't mind at all lol. You see what I have to deal with. Yeah, I don't think we would be able to notice something fishy if they had only used it for copyediting. I don't really believe them, but it's not the most egregious example in the world. Like I said, just exhausting. AI is truly a gift from above for lazy, uncurious, uncreative, (and dishonest) people. The tech oligarchs truly can't wait to lull us to sleep with them. JTtheOG (talk) 20:35, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Fighting against AI feels like swimming upstream. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:00, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

And then you'll get the chuds online going "just stop resisting progress and embrace the future bro" while they use ChatGPT 100 times a day. JTtheOG (talk) 21:20, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

It's crazy, lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:52, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

And it sucks because lots of times it'll be seasoned, experienced editors who suddenly start creating articles using AI. A common trend I see is non-native English speakers trying to "professionalize" their prose without realizing that it just makes it sound like garbage. Like, you've been creating articles that were fine for years, but that's not good enough. JTtheOG (talk) 21:25, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Now what if Opposition to AI Data Centers was AI-generated lol. What we gon do then. JTtheOG (talk) 23:37, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

You've been here since 2006 and have 75K edits but have to use AI to craft your RfA answers? Your writing wasn't good enough before? *facepalm* ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:52, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

That's literally the guy with the longest editing streak. We're destroying the world and ourselves to produce slop text, brainrot videos, and CSAM to hopefully increase shareholder value. All so the billionaires can become even more rich, more powerful, and more influential in our politics. It's literally over lol. We had a tiny window to contain this madness and we let is pass long ago. Sorry to doom. :p JTtheOG (talk) 20:59, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

You're right to doom lol. It's crazy. Like seriously, people at work just use LLMs to write up stuff. How does anyone know what's really going on? Just ask your AI to do it for you. How do teachers grade essays nowadays??? Just give everyone an A, why have grades at all (sarcasm). ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:16, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

They're all using it. It's even used to write textbooks. The ideal system for the oligarchs is gonna be 100 kids per classroom all learning via their AI teacher software (which ofc they're gonna sell to schools), with one dude making minimum wage watching over them. JTtheOG (talk) 21:23, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

That's really distopian lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:37, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Dude, I'd love to be a teacher nowadays just to give everyone 0's. You and I can spot LLMs so easy. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:43, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Ain’t NOBODY moving on to 10th grade til I watch you physically write an essay lol. JTtheOG (talk) 04:01, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

@JTtheOG: And then they use an LLM to reply to us. Wikipedia:Writing articles with large language models is toothless. Anyone can just say "Yeah, of course I checked everything and only used it for copyediting." -.- And then you get people trying to defend them: "Please assume good faith" ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:44, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

I wish we had a good AI detector and just could just ban these ppl off the rip. JTtheOG (talk) 17:14, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Can I take this person to ANI or something for lying about it? That’s an arrestable offense right? JTtheOG (talk) 17:15, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

You might report them at Wikipedia:WikiProject AI Cleanup/Noticeboard. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:24, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

User talk:Zeptentrion#Blocked from mainspace  Done JTtheOG (talk) 20:02, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

I've also noticed that slop users tend to ask you to expand on exactly why you think they're using AI, not only to waste time and make you lose interest, but also to feed it back into their systems to try to humanize their output. JTtheOG (talk) 20:05, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Yes, that's a big problem as well. Hopefully people don't start intentionally adding typos. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:12, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Glad to see this covered at WP:WHERESTHEAI. JTtheOG (talk) 20:54, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, I hadn't seen that essay yet. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:25, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

@JTtheOG: There's an RfC here that you may be interested in. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:43, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Interesting. Seems like a step in the right direction. JTtheOG (talk) 18:58, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

@JTtheOG: And don't forget when people think you're AI. Also, User_talk:Bagumba#You_are_AI. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:08, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Now there's a new one for me lol. JTtheOG (talk) 19:17, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Sigh, JTtheOG (talk) 21:05, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

It never ends bro. At least they admitted it. If someone lies, I'd report them straight to the noticeboard. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:30, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

I love it when articles I created in 2014 get replaced with AI versions. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 00:20, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

Your opinion

Hi there. Am I wrong with wanting a real citation for Brock Lesnar's retirement? The IP on the talk page seems to agree with me. I know wrestling plays games with retirements .. being real etc. Am I supposed to play along? The citation given still says 'speculate'. Any help is appreciated. John. Bringingthewood (talk) 21:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Someone added that Paul Heyman stated on Raw that Lesnar is retired. I guess we'll just have to go with that. It's pro wrestling. No one turns in retirement papers or anything. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:48, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

It's the 'we'll just have to' part that gets me. I'm a f'er like that, lol. I removed that line because it looked like the citation was there earlier and that sentence was just added to it. I could understand if Lesnar out and out admits it .. then comes back in the summer. That's the wrestling way. But I really thought we could do things like NFL free agents, things are almost written in stone and we can't add something without a credible citation. Again, see below, lol. Bringingthewood (talk) 22:41, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

https://www.si.com/fannation/wrestling/wwe/update-on-brock-lesnar-apparent-retirement-as-triple-h-responds I'm going with this citation. Wikipedia wants to put retirement in black and white on his page with shit still up in the air? Maybe someone should rewrite the rules here. Not all wrestling fans are ten years old. I respect the IP user on his talk page. Bringingthewood (talk) 22:49, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

You're probably right. It might be a ruse. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:49, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

On SI is full of amateur hacks (WP:NBARSU). But yeah, this is rasslin. —Bagumba (talk) 23:57, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

This soap opera wouldn't fly on the T. J. Watt page, lol. https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/backstage-report-brock-lesnars-wwe-152423212.html Bringingthewood (talk) 21:31, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't care either way ... but ... let's say it stays like this until the summer ,(speculation and nothing definitive from the WWE or Lesnar), if he wrestles in August it'll come back as if WP declared he was retired. Editors need to be taught the NFL free agent way, lol. P.S. Aaron Rodgers could f'n retire, that'll be fine with me. Bringingthewood (talk) 00:13, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

Hi. Not sure if you were ever asked to finish a review. Let me first say, I ask only .. not because of the way it's progressing. I embraced the thoroughness etc. I'm enjoying it. But for example: Let's say a block or something. We won't have to start all over .. right? It's a stupid question and I'm just curious. John. Bringingthewood (talk) 02:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

I wouldn't think so. Not sure why it's taking so long. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 03:05, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

Maybe if someone died .. God forbid. I only ask because you did many .. I think nominating and reviewing. Way back when, truth be told, I threw things out there to you so you would get the credit for his page, if you wanted it. But maybe it's not the right thing if editors are friends etc. It's cool to see someone who isn't familiar with the sport, take up this task and really put forth the effort. He'd be a good doctor .. or an accountant. If not already. :) Bringingthewood (talk) 03:13, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

At least he's thorough. Most people don't check every single reference. You're not actually supposed to do that, lol. Per WP:GANI#R3: "spot-check of a sample of the sources in the article". ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 03:17, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

Ha, you see, you know what you're talking about. I'm soaking it all in .. because I won't have anything to look forward to when it's over, lol. Anyway, like LG mentioned to me at the beginning, it wasn't 'quick failed' .. there's hope. P.S. At least there's Payton-Jones, the silver lining. ;) Bringingthewood (talk) 03:33, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

Lol, don't you just hate it when someone sees the light and wakes up a dreaded Republican? It's always fun following the breadcrumbs around here. Have a good night. :) Bringingthewood (talk) 22:29, 5 May 2026 (UTC)

You know .. you and LG are incredible. The both of you .. and B. of course, better than my own family (excluding parents). Whatever happens .. I always look at that green circle with the plus sign, ahhhh. What everyone did, it's unreal. I sound like a broken record .. but like the saying goes, set your goals low and you're never disappointed. Good people, and I'll always take your sides over anyone!. You have my word on that! Bringingthewood (talk) 22:39, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Thanks BTW. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 22:42, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

No, I thank you. I'm telling you, I know a handful of good people here, not for what they did, but who they are. Honestly I have two good friends outside of Wikipedia. But you and the chosen few I mentioned, hell, I'd kill for you guys. Let's hope it doesn't get that far. Anything asked, I'll try to get it done. Thanks again. John. Bringingthewood (talk) 22:56, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Happy holiday weekend! I was just wondering. Do you think the template should have 'years attended' not needed in the high school section? I was going to ask over there at the talk page, but my luck this was covered already. This may just be an isolated thing, but it's always nice when we could use a link to prove it. No rush to respond. Enjoy your Sunday. Bringingthewood (talk) 21:21, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

I can't believe a few users have actually tried to add high school years. Facepalm lol. Thanks for reverting those. I added a note to the template. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 22:50, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

LOL! No problem reverting, I felt like an accountant looking at all those numbers! Thanks for adding the note. Now let's see what we can find next. :/ Bringingthewood (talk) 22:55, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

Oops

Looks like you copied the wrong college stats into Justin Forsett. —Bagumba (talk) 23:19, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Dang, how'd that happen lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:29, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Your nomination of Bart Houston is under review

Your good article nomination of the article Bart Houston is under review. See the review page for more information. This may take up to 7 days; feel free to contact the reviewer with any questions you might have. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of BeanieFan11 -- BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:01, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

• Question: if I finished reviewing this and reviewed two others of yours tomorrow/Tuesday would you review my noms of Bunny Vosters and Gretchen Vosters Spruance? BeanieFan11 (talk) 03:46, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

  Sure. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 04:23, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Thanks again

Thanks for that. I saw red after seeing it, and I went and thanked an IP user for making Tony Stewart 700 lbs!! I never did that. Can I rollback my 'thanking' stupidity, lol? Bringingthewood (talk) 22:08, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

No, it's like email. Once it's sent, it's gone lol. Also I thought that message you sent RevMS that one time was funny: "Fingers crossed. I would say if something is added in the future, all citations should coincide with each other, or it defeats the purpose. While I am getting way ahead of myself, if this does pass .. down the road it could be reviewed again and this will happen again. Know what I mean? It's like telling the cops I'll wait for you to leave and then I'll rob the bank, lol." ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 22:13, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

That's what I was afraid of, I let the IP user know anyway. ROFL!! I thought the same thing .. he was supposed to tell the cops first! I'm guilty also, the 'future', that's why I sent that original message ... there's always some truth in a joke. LOL, I'm going to patent that saying! P.S. I think T. J. is driving people insane with this review. I have patience when needed .. and it's Christmas Eve .. that's the GA due date. :) - John. Bringingthewood (talk) 22:24, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

I hate when it shows that I reverted you when it wasn't intentional, lol. Again, thanks for the help. Bringingthewood (talk) 20:33, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Hopefully, the (https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/2017/rounds/1#30) link for the wingspan data for T.J. Watt will be okay with the "bank and cops", given that it should be more "legal" than Draft Scout for players who attended the NFL Combine. RevMSWIE500 (talk) 01:21, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

That's fine. I didn't get a ping or anything. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:57, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Why? I thought the photo looked better. We went through this months ago with Watt's page. It's like trying to find an inmate in a prison photo. I have three reverts before an edit war, lol. All kidding aside, I thought it looked better. John. Bringingthewood (talk) 22:30, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

On my father, when I first look at that photo I think it's the guy in blue! Bringingthewood (talk) 22:32, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

You're 100% right, but SergeWoodzing will probably send you a message complaining about it lol. See User_talk:WikiOriginal-9#April 2026. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:02, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

And you're hell-bent on me not having any fun? ;) I know where you're coming from and I appreciate it .. but I'm all for being reverted three times when I know I'm right. This is going to stick in my craw, you know that, lol. Bringingthewood (talk) 23:11, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

OK, you have my permission to add it back lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:27, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Maybe just self-revert, and save him his 3 bullets lol. —Bagumba (talk) 23:39, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

I thought about that but SergeWoodzing will come messaging me again once my name pops up on his watchlist. It makes me look like the "culprit" lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:42, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

OK. If we're taking the diplomatic approach, feel free to keep me company at Talk:Chris Payton-Jones. —Bagumba (talk) 23:46, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Note: That was a joke, and not encouraging violence ROFL.—Bagumba (talk) 23:52, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Why does everyone want to fight with me on images? Now there's someone at Josh Johnson (quarterback): [1][2] ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:53, 18 May 2026 (UTC)

Check out Kobe: 1 2 3. —Bagumba (talk) 20:42, 18 May 2026 (UTC)

This is scary, I was just adding a line of the Watt's together for Wheaties, and I saw your addition while editing. I didn't want to override anything ... but I also didn't want to look like a cripple. :/ -- Bringingthewood (talk) 22:47, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Speaking of which, does anyone know which day Watt is scheduled to appear on the main page? The DYK conveyor belts are too complex for me to make sense of atm. Left guide (talk) 23:03, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

They don't make sense for anyone. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:26, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

LOL glad to know I'm not alone. Left guide (talk) 23:27, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

So you must know how I feel! Thanks again ... and we'll see. Bringingthewood (talk) 23:38, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

After a nom is approved, it then needs to be promoted, which is usually noted in the nom (example). If you're lucky, the edit summary tells you where it went ("Preparation area 3" in the previous example). Otherwise, hunt for it at WP:DYKQ. The table there has the time it will be on the Main Page, but sometimes the hook can change queues too (or just yanked for any number of reasons). —Bagumba (talk) 01:05, 31 May 2026 (UTC)

April 2026

Re: Chris Payton-Jones - again: use the articles talk page to discuss the image. SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:22, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Football player wear helmets, there's not always going to be a good profile picture. I've already compromised by moving it out of the infobox. "Payton-Jones with the St. Louis Battlehawks in 2025, as identifyable through his shirt" is also not an appropriate caption, please stop adding it back. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 18:02, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

We are all required to discuss article content on article talk pages. That includes you, me, everybody. That's why I wrote to you here, not there. Pls respond there! --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:08, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

We are also required to dicuss before we reverse, when an item has been started up in an article's talk page. Until you reply there, and let others join in, if they please, I will continue to reistate what is an attempt at least to motive your inclusiopn of that weird photo. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:11, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Third Saturday in October

As a Tennessee Volunteers fan, The Third Saturday in October, our college football rivalry vs. Alabama, has been very unkind to me for a while for the most part. 2022 and 2024 are the exceptions recently. I want to share a tidbit about something that is an insane coincidence from the 2022 game. Our last win prior to October 15, 2022 came on October 21, 2006. The amount of days in between the wins was 5,838 days. Alabama's lead in the rivalry before the 2022 game was 58–38–2. The amount of days between wins and Alabama's W–L record, minus ties, were a spot on match (5,838 and 58–38). I sadly did not come up with this. A Tennessee media member brought it to my attention on a social media site. I thought you would enjoy. Red Director (talk) 03:31, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Nice. At least you didn't have to wait 43 years. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:02, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Your nomination of Harry Leons is under review

Your good article nomination of the article Harry Leons is under review. See the review page for more information. This may take up to 7 days; feel free to contact the reviewer with any questions you might have. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of BeanieFan11 -- BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:03, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Your nomination of Josh LaRocca is under review

Your good article nomination of the article Josh LaRocca is under review. See the review page for more information. This may take up to 7 days; feel free to contact the reviewer with any questions you might have. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of BeanieFan11 -- BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:04, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Your nomination of Bart Houston has passed

Your good article nomination of the article Bart Houston has passed; congratulations! See the review page for more information. If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Please also consider reviewing somebody else's nomination to help keep the backlog down. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of BeanieFan11 -- BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:21, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Your nomination of Harry Leons has passed

Your good article nomination of the article Harry Leons has passed; congratulations! See the review page for more information. If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Please also consider reviewing somebody else's nomination to help keep the backlog down. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of BeanieFan11 -- BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:23, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

Your nomination of Josh LaRocca has passed

Your good article nomination of the article Josh LaRocca has passed; congratulations! See the review page for more information. If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Please also consider reviewing somebody else's nomination to help keep the backlog down. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of BeanieFan11 -- BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:23, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

File:Viliami Moala.webp listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Viliami Moala.webp, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Dennis C. Abrams (talk) 17:20, 29 April 2026 (UTC)

Table captions

Re: your removal, FWIW WP:DTAB says they're "always" required for accessibility. Though I only added it there because one of the previous section headers had "football" already (since he also played college baseball), so I was just trying to retain it. —Bagumba (talk) 00:43, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

I've seen someone say that before but I don't see why a screen reader couldn't read the section headers? Why isn't that good enough? In the AI era, reading a section heading should be very easy to do. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 02:14, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

I don't use screen readers, so I trust whatever is in the guidelines are from some that do and arent there willy-nilly. —Bagumba (talk) 04:13, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

The NBA tables don't have captions either lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:01, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

WP:OTHERCRAPDOESNTEXIST rofl —Bagumba (talk) 14:10, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

LOL. Are you saying the NBA tables should have captions? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:11, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Not high on my mos radar lol. Incidentally, the pros and cons are at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Archive_15#RfC_on_table_captions. If there were captions, maybe we wouldnt need NFL, college, UFL, NJCAA, etc. subheaders. Now, back to color scrubbing. —Bagumba (talk) 14:20, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

The readers couldn't see that stuff from the table of contents though. All they would see is "Career statistics". ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:28, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Sure. That would be consistent with those that can see. I think the gist is that screen reader users also have access to the table captions, so they can selectively pull up a table without having to read the whole article. The equivalent of skimming. —Bagumba (talk) 14:36, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

They can just skim by using the table of contents though. How many of the relatively few screen reader users are browsing articles by skimming tables as opposed to using the table of contents? From the RfC you linked above: "Graham also tells me that it's common for a screen reader user to navigate by calling up a list of headings and use that to navigate to the section that they want. That has lead us to accept tables without captions where the table comes immediately below a heading and the caption would simply duplicate that heading." ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:42, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

I'm not looking to relitigate haha. —Bagumba (talk) 14:50, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

This is just me, and i dont use screen readers, but if im looking to see if someone has stats, I just skim the page looking for a table, I don't look at the TOC. —Bagumba (talk) 14:53, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Actually, Michael_Jordan#NBA_career_statistics does. —Bagumba (talk) 20:17, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the standard template if you have to manually add captions every time?? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:19, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

I can't remember if it was a roster table or stats table and for which sport, but there was the similar "caption duplicates header" argument along with ableist accusations. Maybe leaving an optional parameter was the compromise. —Bagumba (talk) 06:14, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

I think it was Template:CBB yearly record start. See Template_talk:CBB_yearly_record_start#Captions_are_necessary. "Statistics overview" doesn't seem like a great caption though. I left a similar message on the talk page but no one ever replied. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

Looking back at that discussion, Template:Screen reader-only will solve all of our problems. It says "The main usage case is when a table is placed immediately below a heading, where the heading is effectively identical to the table's caption. This template may be used to hide the caption from a sighted reader (as it would be duplicative), while allowing a screen reader to hear the caption – for example, if the screen reader reads a list of tables in the article to allow navigation directly to a particular table." ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:06, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

Silence is the weakest form of consensus. And if that doesnt stick, someone will always scream WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. BTW, I think the NFL proj is allergic to pairing accessible symbols with colors (Tom_Brady#Career_statistics) —Bagumba (talk) 16:15, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

You could be bold and add some symbols to Brady's article like Michael Jordan. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:27, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

There's still 400 pages with those hideous college color tables, not to mention endless MOS:SOB lol. —Bagumba (talk) 16:33, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

That color scrubbing takes so long. It would be nice if there was someway of doing it with JWB. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

I'm slow with regex, but I did wipe some out with JWB. The remaining ones, I havent figured out how to make JWB tell an NFL table from a college one to determine whether to add the FBS season links or not. The editor's search and replace is a pain if I have to specify the regex every time I load a page, but might still be better than brute force cut and pastes. —Bagumba (talk) 16:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

I wish I could help with advanced regex but it's far above my pay grade ($0) LOL. I have been able to figure out some semi-advanced stuff with JWB though. Some code I see people talk about on here is just mind-boggling. I used to put in WP:Bot requests for stuff but people always wanted to wikilawyer and ask why it was necessary or that I needed to get consensus first. I've found out that the bot request page isn't actually there to help you, lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:52, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

WP is full of contradictions. And yet you and I are still here. —Bagumba (talk) 16:55, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

Look at the first reply to each bot request (although I did skip a few where they actually helped):

• "What is the need to mass replace all of these citations with this template?"
• "Probably a bad idea for a bot task."
• "I did a quick database query and found a total of 37,887 of these, which is far too large to make any kind of useful report."
• "@SeaDragon1 Does that category exist? What problem are we solving with this?"
• "This page is for bot requests. Are you requesting a bot?"
• "@Mathglot: this is programmatically possible, a little difficult and time-consuming — but possible. I have a few questions, would it be okay if we continue the discussion on your or my talkpage?"
• "Hi @Jamespentalow, Wikipedia is not intended as a directory or something to signal trust, but an encyclopedia."
• "I don't know that there are growing concerns about LLM-generated articles introducing incorrect citation metadata."
• "While this is not an argument for opposing a bot"...
• "I'm not sure this is a good task."
• "Does this involve a Bot?"

~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:03, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

While there is WP:COSMETICBOT, but my watchlist gets lit up by some task that's only removing obsolete parameters that do nothing. —Bagumba (talk) 17:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

I know right. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:20, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

And the JC year links and combined stats total at Jaquan_Brisker#College are out of my pay grade lol. —Bagumba (talk) 17:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

I know. There aren't any sources anyway. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:37, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

And it seems even recent FAs give a pass on MOS:COLOR (Dan_Fouts#Career_statistics) —Bagumba (talk) 16:53, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

Dang. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:55, 1 May 2026 (UTC)

Table caption alert! And it wasn't me.—Bagumba (talk) 20:00, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

I got JWB to do it,[3] but not smart enough to get it to combine stats sections. —Bagumba (talk) 20:03, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Nice. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:06, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

I knew Dissident93 was the culprit before I even clicked on it. He used to do that (or maybe he still does...) ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:05, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Non-free fair use

Did you try drawing him or use AI first? —Bagumba (talk) 18:29, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

LOL ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 18:31, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Viliami Moala.webp

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:50, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Inspiration Barnstar
		You make it a good place to return to! Bringingthewood (talk) 01:03, 3 May 2026 (UTC)

Thanks! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 01:59, 3 May 2026 (UTC)

You got it. You're an inspiration when one wants to fly the coop. ;) Bringingthewood (talk) 02:06, 3 May 2026 (UTC)

Jack Brewer

Just saw a video of Cardinals legend-turned-Republican-hotshot Jack Brewer on Fox News saying some racist shit about Somalis. I check out his article, and it's chalk-full of promotional garbage. A quick look at the page history shows edits from User:JackBrewerFoundation and another editor who wrote in the edit description: As some of the information was incorrect, I edited the article according to his actual biography. I work as the social media and research coordinator for the Brewer Group and The Jack Brewer Foundation).

They made the article look like this and the edit summary conveniently left out that they removed the "Insider trading investigation" subsection lol. Absolute clowns. JTtheOG (talk) 05:11, 3 May 2026 (UTC)

Wow. Thanks for cleaning it up. COI editing shouldn't even be allowed. Like seriously, if no one cares enough to write about you then Wikipedia doesn't need your info. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 05:27, 3 May 2026 (UTC)

Looks like there's been an update in the case in the meantime... JTtheOG (talk) 06:14, 3 May 2026 (UTC)

Pavia

Kind of interesting how the runner-up for the Heisman is such a long shot to make a final roster. When you do not have the physical traits, you better not be a headache on the PR I guess lol. Red Director (talk) 15:19, 4 May 2026 (UTC)

I know. It's weird. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:36, 4 May 2026 (UTC)

DYK for Josh LaRocca

On 6 May 2026, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Josh LaRocca, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Josh LaRocca was signed and then released by the Denver Broncos in 1996, again in 1997, and then for a third time in 1998? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Josh LaRocca. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Josh LaRocca), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC)

File:Diondre Overton.png listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Diondre Overton.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Dennis C. Abrams (talk) 23:12, 6 May 2026 (UTC)

Apples and oranges

Why do editors mix schools (Rice University) with MOS:EGGy links to college football programs.[4] —Bagumba (talk) 22:15, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

How would you write it? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 22:26, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

Just be consistent. If the others in the sentence link to a FB program, then use [[Rice Owls football|Rice]]. Or visa versa. —Bagumba (talk) 22:41, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

You always change those to "Rice Owls" though. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:37, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

In the lead, I make it the program. There's been multiple discussions confirming that. In the body, it's good to work in the actual school somewhere. —Bagumba (talk) 00:08, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

What should Ellerbee's article be changed to though? Should that sentence be "Ellerbee committed to play football for Rice University after being recruited by Princeton University, Harvard University, and Texas State University." or perhaps "Ellerbee committed to play football for the Rice Owls after being recruited by the Princeton Tigers, Harvard Crimson, and Texas State Bobcats." At Josh LaRocca recently it looks like I wrote it as "In January 1991, he committed to Rice University to play college football for the Rice Owls. He had also planned visits to Texas Tech and Navy but cancelled those trips after committing to Rice." ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:44, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

LaRocca: Yes, it's preferable to avoid your Ellerbee example's repeating "University" so many times in the same sentence. Since "Rice Owls" was already introduced in the lead, it doesn't necessarily need to be repeated with "Rice" and "Owls" together again. So possibly "In January 1991, he committed to play college football for Rice. He had also planned to visit Texas Tech and Navy but cancelled those trips after committing to the Owls." Then you could say, "As a true freshman at Rice University ..."—Bagumba (talk) 15:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

I always thought the body was supposed to stand alone from the lead. There might be a guideline somewhere that says that but I can't find it. This is the best I saw: MOS:INTRO: "The body is allowed to repeat points from the lead, since the lead summarizes the points of the body and the body provides elaboration on those points, which are usually reiterated." ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:10, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

Sure, repeat facts (with sources) in the body. But I generally only use surname in the body (though some repeat given name) and I dont reintroduce abbrev expansions (use "NFL" only in body if lead already has "National Football League (NFL)". So I think it's fair that a reader can remember the Owls are from Rice if Rice Owls was mentioned in the lead. —Bagumba (talk) 15:22, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

DYK

... the the article for Oludoyi Julius Juwon recently celebrated its sixth birthday? JTtheOG (talk) 05:44, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

There are a lot of questionable African articles based on flimsy news sources. Whenever I look at newspaper sources in Nigerian/Ghanaian articles, it always seems like they're not-so-subtly promoting the topic. See Wikipedia:NEWSORGNIGERIA for more information. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

Absolutely. Same goes for a couple different regions. A few months back I was going through some in Category:Saudi Arabian businesspeople, Category:Emirati businesspeople, etc. I'm sure you could go down the list continent by continent. There are hundreds of undisclosed paid articles on businesspeople, and as you said, not exactly subtle either. It's certainly interesting exploring articles within some of these subcats. JTtheOG (talk) 18:43, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Diondre Overton.png

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:09, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

Team colors

Hey WO9, any experience with Module:Gridiron color? I want to implement LFA team colors cuz we can't have the LFA goats (Jeremy Johnson, Shelton Eppler) having their infoboxes look like that... but I'm not sure how to pick the primary, secondary, alt, or fourth color. JTtheOG (talk) 19:27, 10 May 2026 (UTC)

I added some. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:16, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

Awesome, appreciate it! JTtheOG (talk) 18:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

DYK for Joe Haering

On 13 May 2026, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Joe Haering, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Arena Football League coach Joe Haering once punched the league's president? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Joe Haering. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Joe Haering), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 00:02, 13 May 2026 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Joe Haering.png

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JCs

At least this lead it's obvious that one is a JC, unlike this. But I guess I'm in the minority of being bothered by lumping it all as "college football". —Bagumba (talk) 00:36, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

What would you do? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 01:55, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

Me? Not call JCs college football lol. I wouldnt include JCs in the lead either. HS generally isnt notable either (perhaps All American only? Is there HS football NPOY?). Otherwise, it's "junior college football" or "He attended Coffeyville Community College before playing college football for the Stanford Cardinal." —Bagumba (talk) 03:22, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

Doesn’t that sort of imply they didn’t play football at the JC? JTtheOG (talk) 04:00, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

Another reason to keep JCs out of the lead lol —Bagumba (talk) 04:26, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

😔 JTtheOG (talk) 04:55, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

Total opposite end of the spectrum for me. I think all college football should be treated as college football. I’m curious to explore your POV though: Would you prefer the prose go in a different section as well? JTtheOG (talk) 04:59, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

Maybe I have limited exposure, but it's my impression that sources are usually clear that a school is a JC/CC either by its name, the fact that it's a local source that assumes local knowledge, or outright calling it "junior college football" or similar. I would be fine in the body placing it under "College career" if it's somehow conveyed that it's not a 4-yr college. I still don't think it's notable for the lead of most bios. If we consider Frank Gifford, his NYT obit doesn't even mention his JC, nor does his college HOF profile. (Of course his WP page doesn't even mention USC in the lead) —Bagumba (talk) 05:36, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from. Thank you. JTtheOG (talk) 18:18, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

In old crappy versions of my articles, I used to write the college names in the leads: "He first enrolled at Baylor University before transferring ot St. Mary's University, Texas." And yes, that typo was in my original version, lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 04:15, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

I was semi-surprised not to see Blinn in Cam Newton's lead: "Following a stint with the Florida Gators, Newton played college football for the Auburn Tigers, winning the Heisman Trophy and the 2011 BCS National Championship Game as a junior." I guess winning the NJCAA national title isn't as important once you've won the "real" one. It looks like our "friend" Bluerules removed it.

I don't see Butte in Aaron Rodgers's lead though Reedley is in Josh Allen's: "A lightly regarded high school prospect, Allen began his college football career with the Reedley Tigers before transferring to the Wyoming Cowboys." I don't see Reedley ever being removed from Allen's lead. Seems like important context for him. Although according to the body of Rodgers' article, he was lightly recruited out of high school as well.... lol.... ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:17, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

The lead should reflect WP:WEIGHT of the sources, not automatically assume that every championship, or "first" or stat leader is worth plopping in the lead (or infobox). —Bagumba (talk) 15:57, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

I'm just being annoying but here are some sources about Blinn: [5][6][7][8][9] Also nytimes.com "At Blinn College, Cam Newton Plotted a Return to the Big Time" (2016) but I can't read it. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:10, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

Which is why I used Gifford's obit, which is looking at the big picture. No doubt there's HS coverage on players, but I also don't think HS is generally notable for the lead. It's good that you're being a devil's advocate; things are rarely black and white. —Bagumba (talk) 16:29, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

I got an error for that NYT url. This works. —Bagumba (talk) 16:42, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

Also, pretty cool to see Cam in that all blue. Very close to his high school colors. JTtheOG (talk) 18:20, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

You know his high school colors? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:43, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

No but both came up when I Googled it lol. JTtheOG (talk) 19:47, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

Oh cool. lol ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:48, 16 May 2026 (UTC)

Very cool

Not 100% sure but I think this person made fake images of news articles using AI and then saved the image on the Wayback machine to create fake citations pointing to those fake sources for an article. 1, 2, 3. It seems like the claim about the governor attending a match in the second source is made up too. Here is the article in case it gets deleted. JTtheOG (talk) 08:21, 18 May 2026 (UTC)

Wow, that's dedication. Can anyone really upload whatever images they want to archive.org? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:28, 18 May 2026 (UTC)

Guess so.. JTtheOG (talk) 18:32, 18 May 2026 (UTC)

Holton Ahlers

I was fixing it up when I got an edit conflict with you. i really messed that one up.[10]. i'm leaving the HS colors (which are really just using NC A&T) —Bagumba (talk) 17:52, 18 May 2026 (UTC)

Can't fix everything, lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:55, 18 May 2026 (UTC)

Things that make you go hmmm

During the 2020–21 NCAA Division I FCS football season, the 2020 Weber State Wildcats football team also played in 2021 —Bagumba (talk) 17:05, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

I've seen that before too. It's confusing. Dang COVID era... The effects of that are still lingering because people can basically stay in college as long as they want to nowadays. It's literally insane. Cam McCormick was a super super super super super senior. Not even kidding. Take a look at McCormick's stats table: Cam McCormick#College statistics (7 years at Oregon wasn't enough, he had to get 2 years at Miami too). He was in college longer than Pro Football Hall of Famer Earl Campbell was in the NFL. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:12, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

There's NIL money to be had. I think JCs unofficially don't count towards eligibility anymore, cuz NCAA would be sued and probably lose for depriving players of a living. That would finally blow up their "student athlete" facade of execs hoarding all the money. —Bagumba (talk) 17:19, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

"JCs unofficially don't count towards eligibility anymore". That's crazy. College football is so messed up nowadays. It's just an NFL minor league like Minor League Baseball is to MLB. They don't even pretend anymore. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:25, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, it sucks as a fan used to the old era, but I'm all for players getting paid instead of the suits pocketing all the money. —Bagumba (talk) 17:32, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

Cam McCormick: That's a messed up lead sentence. —Bagumba (talk) 17:37, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

I changed it. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:40, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

Great. I've always thought that unless an ex-player is more notable as a coach, coaching roles other than for HCs or lead coordinators are generally minor and dont really meet WP:ROLEBIO to be in the lead sentence. —Bagumba (talk) 17:51, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

I know, I hate it when people string together these super-long sentences. Joe Schmoe is an American former professional football tight end who played in the National Football League (NFL) with the Miami Dolphins and is currently an offensive assistant for the Dartmouth Big Green. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:57, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

@WikiOriginal-9: Slightly better than the common Joe Schmoe is an American former professional football tight end and coach ... when it's ambiguous if "former" also applies to "coach". —Bagumba (talk) 18:40, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

YES. I hate those! lol ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 18:43, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

Did you know that Michael Jordan "is an American businessman and retired professional basketball player who is a minority owner of the Charlotte Hornets of the National Basketball Association (NBA) and co-owner of the 23XI Racing team in the NASCAR Cup Series." ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:50, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

I recently cleaned up Shaq. Jordan probably is about as well known for NASCAR as he is for being a minority NBA owner. I'd lead more towards Brittanica, which doesn't have "businessman" in the lead sentence for either Jordan or Magic. Was ok when Jordan was controlling owner of Hornets. —Bagumba (talk) 22:42, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

I never heard of the NASCAR thing before with Jordan. I have heard of his NBA ownership though. Also, I hate it when people add businessman and stuff in the opening like that. Just make it the second sentence. Jordan's not best known as a businessman. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:16, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, Im sure Rodman and The Mailman have had wrestling in their lead sentence at some point. —Bagumba (talk) 23:55, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

American auto racing?[11] And is he still a team owner or a former team owner? —Bagumba (talk) 00:08, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

I guess he still is: Joe Gibbs Racing. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:20, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

I assumed. I was just taking a jab at the lead's leading "former": former football coach and an American auto racing team owner —Bagumba (talk) 18:06, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

Did you know that J. R. Tavai is an American former professional football linebacker who last played for the now folded Helvetic Guards of the European League of Football? He is also a current free agent on the defunct team's roster and a CFL American. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 13:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

What is "CFL status" supposed to convey to a reader? Do Americans make more/less money? That "Southern California" is a big ol MOS:EGG. —Bagumba (talk) 14:46, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

"Southern California" lol. I didn't see that. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:00, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

If you click "American", it goes to a section with more info: Canadian Football League#Player designations. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:03, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

I can see how it's relevant to a roster listing to see how quotas are filled. But I still can't figure how it's useful for someone reading a bio. Other statuses at least convey if a player is available to play (IR), or are receiving limited pay (practice squad). —Bagumba (talk) 16:03, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

Positions on one line

You knew I'd be coming around, lol. Sandman asked this question: Does this trump what is shown in the gridiron football infobox template where it lists positions on separate lines? I always used the NFL WP: using one line. The sometimes NFL biography / gridiron etc. drives me nuts. Is there a way to merge these explanations when doing them? Whatever you say. Bringingthewood (talk) 02:53, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

I don't see anything about Template:Infobox gridiron football biography about positions being on two lines? But no, they don't go on two lines if there is enough room on one line for them. It's like that for every sport on Wikipedia (basketball, baseball). I've told Sandman about this in the past but he'll probably just threaten to quit again. I'll just have to change them back later. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:40, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

Lol, I have a chosen few that I really try with .. one hasn't been here in some time, (you'll see that after this reply). I can copy and paste 'some of this' to SM and have him reply just to me. How's that sound? Bringingthewood (talk) 20:58, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

Sounds good. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:05, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

I just now saw the biographies being changed from 'NFL to 'gridiron' Sam Vacanti .. Walt Stickel etc. etc. That's a bit weird to change something to cover what was done earlier, hmmm. As long as we can still use the 'per NFL:' with all the players being changed over. Bringingthewood (talk) 03:53, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

NFL redirects to Template:Infobox gridiron football biography. It's the same thing. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 04:02, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

That's good. So when you fixed the positions for Quentin Klenk an (NFL bio) at the time, and then it was changed to 'gridiron' and redone, all is fine that I went back and changed it to what you had there originally. A slick maneuver is in the works, on purpose or not. I just wanted to be in the right. :) Thanks for that. Bringingthewood (talk) 04:08, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

Asking for a friend ...

about tables like this:

• How is it intuitive that a link labelled "Total" in a bottom left hand corner cell actually sources the year rows too?
• Why are the archive details WP:INTEXT? It is preferable not to clutter articles with information best left to the references. Interested readers can click on the ref to find out the publishing journal

—Bagumba (talk) 06:47, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

If you mean that there should be a "Ref" column, that would probably start to look redundant. Imagine LeBron's stats table with like 23 rows of the same reference number.

As for the clickable "Total" link, if you want to change that to an actual citation, feel free. That's what I usually do (see Josh McCown#Career statistics) but drive-by editors LOVE changing those back to the clickable "Total" or "Career" links. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:57, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

No, each row is overkill when there's generally a comprehensive ref (or two) available. The bottom corner thing is EGGy, esp when it's not even a footnote. Me as an editor, I do the minimum that's obvious to the reader—a simple "Source:" before or after the table. Actually, having a table caption with the ref right afterwards might be the most elegant. Some go through the trouble of a dedicated row, like Emanuel Wilson (American football) § NFL career statistics, but that one again blares the source name, counter again to WP:INTEXT re: ref details. Don't think I'm going on a ref conversion binge anytime soon. Sports editors just love their WP:BAREURLS lol. —Bagumba (talk) 15:34, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

I used to do the "Source" thing like 10 years ago too. However, people always put them back up into the table, lol. It's not worth fighting over. It would seem like a lot of extra unnecessary space to have "Source" after four tables in a row like at McCown anyway. I wouldn't want to get rid of the "Screen reader only" thing just to put the references someplace else either. I think readers know that whatever source (or link) is provided in the Career row also has stats for each season. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:53, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

Sure, it's a convention for regulars, it's just not intuitive for newbies. Like the format at 98th Academy Awards § Awards: I'd expect the source in the table, or after, or before. Not dangling from the sentence before. Oh well. I'm just semi-curious who's the pioneer of the semi-cutesy corner bare URL format lol. —Bagumba (talk) 16:09, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

"Sure, it's a convention for regulars, it's just not intuitive for newbies." Not sure that's true since newbies are usually the ones who change it to bare URL "Career" links in the first place. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

Ha. I meant readers. Drive-by editors are often just copycats. —Bagumba (talk) 16:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

It's funny. At my Zach Mettenberger example listed above where I had "Source" originally, newbie "Wilsun89" moved the reference up to "Career" (which I now agree with). Wilsun89 only had 1K edits at that point in time. Although later, veteran Red Director, is semi-surprisingly the one who changed it to the "Career" bare URL. So over time, it morphed from your preferred format (Source), to my now-preferred format (Career[1]]), to the bare URL "Career". LOL. Looks like I found the middle ground? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:30, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

We won't hang you lol. You know that Tony Allen edit you just made? It turns out I created that "See also" section" back in the day. Though I swear it's because the portal rules keep changing lol. —Bagumba (talk) 16:44, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

Sorry about that... I see other editors like Jweiss11 removing those portal links. And someone removed the NBA portal link you had and changed it to a generic "sports portal". lol. At one point, there was a discussion about deleting all of the portals. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

I've mostly given up on portals. I think the later rule was to not have a dedicated "see also" for it, just put it under ELs (after all those navs lol). At one point someone was adding the baseball portal, and saying they'd doubled the traffic there, so I started doing the same for the NBA portal. —Bagumba (talk) 18:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

Or was this middle ground lol. —Bagumba (talk) 22:47, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

That's a new one, lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 22:49, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

Possible Philadelphia Eagles WikiProject

Hello, I was planning on creating a WikiProject for the Philadelphia Eagles. I am looking for interested editors before making an official proposal. If you would be interested in participating in this WikiProject, please let me know. EaglesFan37 (talk) 19:10, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for the enthusiasm, but everything that needs to be discussed can be discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League. Most of the old subprojects are dead. See Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League#Individual projects. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:14, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

I did see that (although it still looks like the Packers one is going strong). Would a task force be a better idea? EaglesFan37 (talk) 19:19, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

It doesn't really make a difference honestly whether it's called a task force or not. You can start it if you'd like though. BeanieFan11 and User:Eagles247 might join. Those are the only Eagles fans I know of off the top of my head. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:28, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

Just anything to improve the current state of Eagles articles lol.

Fred Barnett, Seth Joyner, Jerome Brown, Tra Thomas, Clyde Simmons, Wilbert Montgomery, Jason Avant, Louie Giammona, Byron Evans, Randy Logan, and countless others can be expanded so much more. EaglesFan37 (talk) 19:35, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

Good luck! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 19:42, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

@WikiOriginal-9 I've gotten started on expanding Mel Tom significantly. Still have to get more detail in, but it's a big improvement from where it was at 24 hours ago. EaglesFan37 (talk) 18:37, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

Speaking of Mel Tom, do you know what is being referred to here [12]? I can't tell if it's a Pro Bowl honorable mention or a newspaper's all-star team honorable mention. EaglesFan37 (talk) 19:24, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I can't read that link. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:18, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

Headline appears to say UPI National Football Conference Team EaglesFan37 (talk) 21:19, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

Would that be an honorable mention all conference? EaglesFan37 (talk) 21:20, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

Sounds like it. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:20, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

Also, you could apply for Newspapers.com access at Wikipedia:Newspapers.com. You meet the requirements. It's the best resource for football players (or anything really). ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 22:35, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

o@WikiOriginal-9 I have access to newspaper archive via the WikiLibrary. I don't have an email attached to my account at the moment, so I can't apply for additional access.

Also, do you know if users are allowed to reassessed articles they significantly contributed to? I submitted Mel Tom to DYK and it definitely isn't a stub anymore, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to reassess it or not. EaglesFan37 (talk) 22:42, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

Yes, you can assess it yourself. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 22:44, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

Thank you! EaglesFan37 (talk) 22:56, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

Replaceable non-free use File:Winona Littleheart.jpeg

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CS1 error on Rickey Foggie

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Rickey Foggie, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

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DYK for Bart Houston

On 24 May 2026, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Bart Houston, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that quarterback Bart Houston was named after quarterback Bart Starr? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Bart Houston. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Bart Houston), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

 — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:02, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

Deleting preexisting info and citations.

There is no reason at all to delete the information you are, that has been in the article for years. Now with additional, well established citations to collaborate. You dont like one word so you delete an entire preexisting section? There is no reason for that. Centurion Seraph (talk) 17:41, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

Here's a source from 2017 that says Woodson was the "first primarily defensive player to win the coveted award". ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:51, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

The preexisting sentence was “He was the first primarily defensive player to win the prestigious award, with the only other defensive winner being two-way player Travis Hunter in 2024.” You then deleted it, references and all.

Hunter & Woodson are tied together by accomplishment. They are routinely regarded as the only two full-time or primarily defensive players to win. I cant attest to substitutions in the 1930s and what they deemed full-time. Though Ive never seen any of them listed. I have seen Hunter listed frequently and I dont think the info/sources should be deleted without proof of them being wrong about them being the only two. Centurion Seraph (talk) 18:16, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

There's no need to mention Hunter or the two-way stuff at all. Just say Woodson is the only primarily defensive player to win the Heisman. No ambiguity about that. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 18:43, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

They are one-of-only-two players in NCAA history. Woodson was the first, and the only one for 27 years, before Hunter became the second.

Is that not subjective, what does primarily exactly mean then? We have established that Hunter had more defensive snaps than offensive snaps. He is a primary defensive player by the very definition. We know Woodson also played offense and special teams, (to a lesser degree; nonetheless) so is there a specific cut off for primarily then? If so what? Lastly there are numerous articles, one on that very page from 2 years ago that contradicts that Woodson is the only primary winner. Centurion Seraph (talk) 19:08, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

"First primarily defensive player to win the Heisman" seems like the best verbiage to me. I don't think we need to mention Travis Hunter in the lead of the Woodson article. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:24, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

Fun fact

Aamil Wagner has set an NFL record despite being an undrafted player from the class of 2026. He is now alphabetically the top first name in NFL history lol. Red Director (talk) 02:21, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

I think you're right. He will be for sure if he ends up playing in an actual game. The next closest in PFR are all the Aarons. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 03:50, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

DYK...

...that Anton Bonke led his team to a Shefa Basketball League title in 2021? ...What do you mean you don't keep up with the Shefa League anymore...? JTtheOG (talk) 08:26, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

Wow, that's a new one. Also, how can you maintain your eligibility when you already declared for the draft?? College sports don't even pretend to care anymore, lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:41, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

Also, holy cow. 17K bytes in one edit. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:42, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

Nah that's nothing lol. Try 55k or 73k. JTtheOG (talk) 20:15, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

On another note, I really don't know where to start with the DYK hook lol. A 7-foot tall Dutch-Vanuatuan ex-world-class rower and open water swimmer who speaks Bislama stumbled into a JUCO offer and will now be playing in the B10 next year just a few years removed from balling out in the Shefa League. Sports are really one-of-a-kind. JTtheOG (talk) 03:02, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

Bislama. That's a new one. Lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 03:09, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

Have you read about Will Wade’s potential roster for next year? He’s the most shameless one. They gotta figure something out QUICK. But I think this rules been around for a few years. Basically the players get to “test the waters” and be evaluated while learning about the draft process. Lots will be withdrawing this week (Bonke included I hope). JTtheOG (talk) 18:19, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

That's crazy! Why even have "college" sports anymore. Just make it like baseball where most players never attend college, and just go straight to Minor League Baseball right out of high school. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:45, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

June 2026 GAN Backlog Drive

Good article nominations | June 2026 Backlog Drive
June 2026 Backlog Drive: Do you want to become more experienced in the GA process? On 1 June, a one-month backlog drive for good article nominations will begin. Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles reviewed. Mentors are available, and new reviewers (<6 reviews) get bonus points! Interested in taking part? You can sign up here.
Other ways to participate: Join the conversations on our talk page.
You're receiving this message because you have participated in a good article review this year or participated in the previous backlog drive.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:59, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

AITA

User talk:Nickdyville#LLM use These situations are... interesting. Either I'm the absolute asshat for harassing a non-native English speaker genuinely trying their best to contribute to the world's greatest repository of knowledge, knowing that their country of origin deserves more coverage online and on WP... or they just lyin' lol. JTtheOG (talk) 21:43, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

Sorry, I been posting the same crap here every week lmao. JTtheOG (talk) 21:44, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

They just lyin'. For every non-LLM user, there are 20 who are using LLMs. "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck".

That's ok about the frequent messages. I'm as annoyed as you are, lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:51, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

Wikipedia:AI noticeboard#User:Daniel G Rego: Why do we have to play these cat-and-mouse games with literally every editor? -.- And it's even worse because it's someone from 2008. (I wasn't stalking you to find that though, the AI noticeboard is on my watchlist and I saw your name pop up so I clicked on it, lol) ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:25, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

(ignore if already feeling gloomy) Idk man it's seeming more and more like a lost cause without a major overhaul to the system. We can't have our most experienced editors wasting God-knows-how-many-hours a week playing footsies with anonymous accounts who may or may not be using LLMs with motives ranging from good-faith intentions to promo/COI spamming and outright trolling. This shit is so incredibly draining. We had another large case yesterday. I was definitely an asshole this time, so I'll be stepping away from the noticeboard just for a little, but we'll never truly know if he was lying, and there were just so many coincidences lining up. He refused to even attempt to address glaring COI concerns. The entire burden cannot remain on us to either feel like an asshole or allow the machines to go wild and (continue to) fuck up such a beautiful project. JTtheOG (talk) 20:53, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

I've been trying all week to finish a simple little article on a local college ballpark lmao. JTtheOG (talk) 20:53, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

Just have an LLM write it for you in 5 seconds! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:25, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

LMFAO. Now we're talking. JTtheOG (talk) 21:46, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

It's annoying when people try to defend them. Is LLM use banned or is it banned? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:32, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

Matthew Wright (American football)

Check this kicker out, Matthew Wright (American football). He has a fourth stint for one team and two separate third stints with two other teams! Red Director (talk) 17:16, 29 May 2026 (UTC)

"He has since been a member of several other NFL teams" You mean 11 other ones. LOL. That's an insane amount for only 6 years. Hopefully, he doesn't pass Shayne Graham. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:29, 29 May 2026 (UTC)

This was in Aaron Hester's article for 10 years

"They said he was the best nfl player in the world" (2016-2018), later changed to "They said he was the best highschool player in the world" (2018-2026). BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:33, 29 May 2026 (UTC)

Wow, lol. Try 20 years: "Did you know that Kendyl Jacox "has started one game at right guard for the Dolphins 2006 and has played in a reserve role for the other games." More information will be added as the season progresses." He ended up starting 8 games that year but no one updated it for 20 years. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 03:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

Outdated by 20 YEARS? Wow. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:29, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

Offensive linemen never get any love, lol. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:40, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

DYK for Harry Leons

On 30 May 2026, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Harry Leons, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Harry Leons had "no chance" of ever becoming his football team's starting quarterback, only to later serve for multiple seasons? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Harry Leons. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Harry Leons), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:03, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

Professional American football

I hate it every time my obit is plagiarized.[13][14] I hope his closest and dearest valued his intellect more too. —Bagumba (talk) 06:57, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

That link doesn't work. Sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean by your obit? It doesn't look like you wrote that diff you linked. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:11, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

Truly bizarre. And luck with this (or its archive)? —Bagumba (talk) 15:32, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

That works. That's funny. They even capitilized "Running Back" like it was in the infobox. "He was a Running Back for the". ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

Maybe some AI slop would be an improvement. "... but catching only one touchdown that year".[15] But that was a three-year high lol. —Bagumba (talk) 16:05, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

I hope someone doesn't plagiarize Mickey Zofko and make that 1 point the highlight of his life.—Bagumba (talk) 01:30, 31 May 2026 (UTC)

Repeated unexplained reverting of page moves

Hello there, with all due respect, could you please explain why you have been repeatedly reverting some (but not all of) my page moves for CFL players who have had parts of their names omitted from their pages' titles? I fail to see why this was necessary. Thank you. FHSIG13 ^TALK 07:30, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

T. J. Lee III isn't his WP:COMMONNAME. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:16, 30 May 2026 (UTC)