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Frequently asked questions

I would like to add a free-to-read publisher to the DOI prefix list in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration: Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration needs the 10.xxxx/... part of the DOI associated with the publisher. All the publications of the publisher must be free-to read. Once that is done, the xxxx part can be added to the list under local function build_free_doi_registrants_table(). Also leave a note at User talk:Citation bot.
I would like to add a free-to-read journal to the DOI prefix list in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration: Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration needs the 10.xxxx/yyyy part of the DOI associated with the journal. All the articles associated with that DOI pattern must be free-to read. Once that is done, the xxxx/yyyy parts can be added to the list under local extended_registrants_t = { with the format ['XXXX'] = {'YYYY'},. If there are multiple journals with the same DOI prefix, they can be grouped together with the format ['XXXX'] = {'YYYY', 'ZZZZ', '...'},. Also leave a note at User talk:Citation bot.
I would like to add a geo-dead/geo-access URL keyword: Previous discussions have come to the conclusion that this is not workable. Websites change which regions can access them regularly, and these websites are regardless not fundamentally dead.
I would like support for PDF page numbers: The specific page of a specific PDF may change between clients with the same file or files with the same client. Consider using a |chapter= or |quote= instead.
I would like my change done now: Local consensus is that these modules sync from their sandboxes approximately once every 3–6 months. This is due to complexity of changes, the number of transclusions these modules have, and to be sure sufficient consensus exists for a change.
I don't like (identifier) in the links to identifier pages: This is done to differentiate identifier links (... lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.^{<ref>Linden, David van der. (2015) ... doi:10.18352/dze.10126</ref>} ... ) from prose links (... the digital object identifier was introduced in 2000 by ... ) in Special:WhatLinksHere.

Is there a way for editor to (manually) indicate that an article is open access?

I'm using an journal article as a source; I've researched the article and determined that is Open Access, and the publisher provides a specific CC license (free to share, but must attribute). is there any field I can put in this Cite Journal template were I can store the fact that is open access? I want that fact preserved for posterity so I don't forget and have to do the research again. I realize I can add plain text at the end of the template, but I'm wondering if there is standard field for this ... such as the unlock icon. Noleander (talk) 14:45, 29 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If you have the doi, you can mark it as openly accessible with |doi-access=free. Same for bibcode, jstor, ssrn, etc. (with |bibcode-access=free, |jstor-access=free, etc...). See WP:DOIACCESS for more information. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:55, 29 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks. I have the DOI, so I'll use the doi-access field. Noleander (talk) 14:59, 29 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If using a citation template that doesn't let you specify access, there are a number of templates to use outside a citation template; see {{Open access}} and its many alternative See alsos. Pol098 (talk) 12:31, 3 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Also if you are using |quote=, you can use {{cc-notice}} at the end, out of citation template.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 19:13, 5 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Change Most Used Parameters for Report Template

Currently, the most commonly used parameters on Template:Cite report use |docket=. However, as multiple talk page discussions (1, 2, 3, 4) show, the use of the term "docket" is confusing at best. Could we change them to use |id= instead of |docket=?

For example:

To cite a report with a credited author

{{cite report |last= |first= |date= |title= |url= |work= |location= |publisher= |id= |access-date=}}

instead of:

To cite a report with a credited author

{{cite report |last= |first= |date= |title= |url= |work= |location= |publisher= |docket= |access-date=}}

and so on.

I imagine these "most commonly used parameters" are more likely to be used by those inexperienced with said parameters, so it would seem to make sense to use a term that is more commonly understood by a larger number of people and much better defined in the documentation. –Noha307 (talk) 21:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Crazy idea, but what if we simply adequately documented the parameters; and if no one can figure out what their proper use is, then remove them? Walkersam (talk) 22:36, 22 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Multy-year work

I stumbled upon a work (Dio's Roman History in nine volumes) whose volumes were published between 1914 and 1927. Using cite book, I am not allowed to tag the date as |date=1914-1927. Is there a way-around solution that was already suggested in the past? Carlotm (talk) 19:39, 12 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I am not allowed to tag the date as |date=1914-1927 Don't use a hyphen in the date range; see MOS:DATERANGE:

{{cite book |title=Dio's Roman History |date=1914–1927}}

Dio's Roman History. 1914–1927.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:02, 12 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@Carlotm: An example from my own library:

MacDermot, E.T. (1927). History of the Great Western Railway, vol. I: 1833–1863. Paddington: Great Western Railway.
MacDermot, E.T. (1931). History of the Great Western Railway, vol. II: 1863–1921. Paddington: Great Western Railway. OCLC 55853736.
Nock, O.S. (September 1967). History of the Great Western Railway, vol. III: 1923–1947. Shepperton: Ian Allan. 1584/387/DXX/967.

--Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:36, 13 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Very helpfull. Thanks. Carlotm (talk) 16:31, 13 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

cookieabsent

There are, at the moment, 469 articles with "cookieabsent" in URLs. [1] They largely appear to be journal articles, and many (at least on the first page of results) seem to have a DOI. However, some of these unusable URLs appear to be archived, as on Psychopathy.

Could/should these appear in a CS1 error category? Snowman304|talk 01:36, 14 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

These URLs can be replaced manually. See at BDSM, This citation also contains doi link which is helpful to replace that url. Also other citations contains identifier link or atleast title and publisher/website which could lead us to any valid web address.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 19:44, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, and so could Wikipedia Library errors (WP:WLERROR), but we track those. Snowman304|talk 22:20, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It can be traced using a maintanence category with messege: "incomplete url with cookieabsent text".––KEmel49(📝,📋) 10:57, 16 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

CS1 maint: DOI inactive as of May 2026

Looking at this citation from Piri Reis, how do I resolve "CS1 maint: DOI inactive as of May 2026":

Orhonlu, Cengiz (April 20, 1970). "Hint Kaptanlığı ve Piri Reis". Belleten (in Turkish). 34 (134): 235–254. doi:10.37879/ttkbelleten.1191525 (inactive 9 May 2026). ISSN 0041-4255.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: DOI inactive as of May 2026 (link)

The doi link is, in fact, inactive and doesn't work, but this is the DOI that the publisher gives for the article. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 04:39, 14 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

You have to contact the publisher and see if they will fix the link by re-registering the DOI. I have tried this in the past and most publishers don't seem to care, unfortunately. Rjwilmsi 09:20, 14 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Filling the "report an error" form often leads to publishers repairing the DOIs. This assume the publisher is still around though. Here it's Turk Tarih Kurumu / Turkish Historical Society, so there's a decent chance things will get patched up. It can take a while however. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 11:03, 14 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

(On mobile) Oh, okay, that makes sense. I've actually contacted them before about releasing some materials that were public domain in Turkey under a CC license for the US, and they we were really responsive about that. This seems comparatively minor. Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 11:30, 14 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

"Staff" as a possibly generic name?

There are lots and lots of articles that have a citation with wikitext with something like |last1=Staff. This is most commonly a citation artifact due to a term like "Staff Writer" being interpreted as a name. That being said, Staff (name) does exist as an anthroponymy article, so we'll probably have to triage these articles manually. Duckmather (talk) 06:11, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

"Staff writer" doesn't actually say anything. Sometimes a source states "staff" as author; sometime Wikipedia editors may take it upon themselves to add this, which is making a claim the source doesn't. I don't see any advantage to a reader (Wikipedia is for readers, not editors) in seeing "Staff" as author, so no need to triage, just delete. As Wikipedia documentation says, author= might save editors from trying to look upo the author's name. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 11:52, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

You can still use Staff (real name) without any issue. Use dual parenthesis around Staff like this: |last=((Staff)). This will treat that text as written markup.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 19:21, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal for Template:cite translation

{{cite translation}} Something, something, AI

I propose a new {{cite translation}} template, primarily for use with {{translated blockquote}}, to provide provenance within a single citation for a published translation and it's foreign language source.

Prior to making this proposal, I have considered the use of {{r}}, {{sfnm}}, {{unbulleted list citebundle}} and nested footnotes, but no existing template explicitly associates a provenance relationship between sources.

I have conceived of two formats and parameter sets which {{cite translation}} could utilise, as detailed in the collapsed table captioned Comparison of separate citations and combination in proposed {{cite translation}}, subject to a decision as to whether the original work or the translation should be the primary work being referenced. My preference is for the original work to be the primary work being referenced, which is showcased in the case study below and introduces the following new parameters:

Case study
In pursuance of WP:DEADREF, a Naive set theory article edit which introduced two quotations was reviewed, one which was referenced but had linkrot and the other in English which was unreferenced. After an extensive search to locate another copy of the material and provide a reference for the second quotation, it became apparent that the translation provided was wrongly attributed to the original author, and was likely a Wikipedian translation of a paraphrase by a third-party. As a result the edit was reverted and replaced with a submission to distinguish between the two foreign quotations, one of which still requires a translation citation.

However, it highlighted a significant issue in translation provenance, with the misattributed English quotation being treated as authoritative in a number of academic worksheets and online resources: Editors are not provided with a citation template which facilitates, and thereby encourages, the recording of provenance of published translations; which is rectified by this proposal and example:

^ Cantor, Georg (March 1895) [Translation published 1915]. Written at Halle. Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Mathematische Annalen (in German). Vol. 46 (4). Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327. GDZPPN00225557X [London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M]. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-11 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. [By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.]

My preferred arrangement for {{cite translation}} conforms to the formatting of {{translated blockquote}} and has the same {{cite translation|title}} as {{translated blockquote|source}}. Hence the consolidated references can appropriately be referenced therein as a single citation, rather than as separate citations at the end of each individual quote:

Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.^[1]
[By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.^[2]]

— Georg Cantor, Mathematische Annalen (1895), Band 46, Heft 4, Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre^[3]

In addition to the semantic benefit of explicitly attributing a provenance relationship between cited works, use of the {{cite translation}} template also avoids the need for a notes section, which could otherwise be used to detail the relationship, and results in a footprint reduction of 30% due to information deduplication in comparison to the use of separate citations for each of the works being referenced; as shown below:

^ Cantor, Georg (March 1895). Written at Halle. "Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre" [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Mathematische Annalen (in German). 46 (4). Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327. GDZPPN00225557X. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-07 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.
^ Jourdain, Philip E. B. (1915) [Original composed in German, March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895]. "Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers". Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre (PDF). By Cantor, Georg Written at Halle. Mathematische Annalen. Vol. 46 (4). London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. Retrieved 2026-04-11. p. 85: By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.

Comparison of separate citations and combination in proposed {{cite translation}}
Separate references for original journal and published translation		{{cite translation}}
{{cite journal}}	{{cite book}}	Original work is citation work		(alternative) Published translation is citation work
Cantor, Georg (March 1895). Written at Halle. "Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre" [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Mathematische Annalen (in German). 46 (4). Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327. GDZPPN00225557X. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-07 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.	Jourdain, Philip E. B. (1915) [Original composed in German, March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895]. "Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers". Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre (PDF). By Cantor, Georg Written at Halle. Mathematische Annalen. Vol. 46 (4). London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. Retrieved 2026-04-11. p. 85: By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.	Cantor, Georg (March 1895) [Translation published 1915]. Written at Halle. Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Mathematische Annalen (in German). Vol. 46 (4). Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327. GDZPPN00225557X [London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M]. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-11 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. [By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.] `{{cite book}}`: External link in `\|trans-title=` (help)		Cantor, Georg (1915) [Original composed March 1895. Written at Halle]. Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers [Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre]. Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. [Mathematische Annalen (in German). 46 (4). Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327 GDZPPN00225557X]. Retrieved 2026-04-11. p. 85: By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. [Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.] `{{cite book}}`: External link in `\|trans-title=` (help)
Issues	Issues	Issues	Benefits	Issues	Benefits
two references with potential for duplicate information – 27% duplicate in example no association between \|trans-title and citation for published translation	two references with potential for duplicate information – 30% duplicate in example limited bibliographic information about original work	template error: `{{cite book}}: External link in \|trans-title=`	All square-bracketed information relates to the same work Bibliography references the source which is written in the language of the article `\|trans-title` provides a translation appropriate to the language of the article `\|trans-title` and `\|trans-quote` are obtained from the same source Author is correctly associated to both contribution and work being referenced Editor/translator is associated with translation work Location is attached to original work using `\|orig-location` `\|orig-date` relates to `\|original` and `\|date` / `\|year` relates to work being referenced Translator is associated with the work being referenced `\|trans-quote` provides a translation appropriate to the language of the article	template error: `{{cite book}}: External link in \|trans-title=` `\|original-` parameters and `\|trans-` parameters indistinguishable due to formatting `\|trans-title` doesn’t provide a translation appropriate to the language of the article `\|trans-quote` doesn’t provide a translation appropriate to the language of the article	All square-bracketed information relates to the same work Bibliography references the source which is written in the language of the article `\|trans-title` and `\|trans-quote` are obtained from the same source Author is correctly associated to both contribution and work being referenced Editor/translator is associated with translation work Location is attached to original work using `\|orig-location` `\|orig-date` relates to `\|original` and `\|date` / `\|year` relates to work being referenced Translator is associated with the work being referenced Work being referenced is appropriate to the language in which the article is written
Parameters	Parameters	Parameters		Parameters
Parameters	Parameters	Current method for achievement	Changes to CS1 template parameters proposed for {{cite translation}}	Current method for achievement	Changes to CS1 template parameters proposed for {{cite translation}}
{{<!-- author --> \|last = Cantor \|first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|date = March 1895	{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|orig-date = Original composed in German, March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895	{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|orig-date = Translation published 1915	{{<!-- author --> \|translation-date = Translation published 1915	{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|orig-date = Original composed March 1895. Written at Halle	{{<!-- author --> \|orig-location = Halle \|orig-date = Original composed March 1895
{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33) \|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|trans-title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers	{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152) \|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf	{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33) \|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf	{{<!-- work -->	{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152) \|title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0	{{<!-- work -->
{{<!-- bibliography --> \|journal = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|volume = 46 \|issue = 4 \|language = de \|publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]] \|publication-place = Leipzig \|publication-date = 7 November 1895 \|doi = 10.1007/BF02124929 \|issn = 0025-5831 \|oclc = 10955667990 \|s2cid = 125716327 \|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]	{{<!-- bibliography --> \|series = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|volume = 46, no. 4 \|language = en \|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|publication-place = London, Great Britain \|year = 1915 \|ol = OL6580010M \|lccn = 15019614 \|oclc = 817921	{{<!-- bibliography --> \|series = ''[[Mathematische Annalen]]'' \|volume = '''46''' (4) \|language = de \|publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]] \|publication-place = Leipzig \|publication-date = 7 November 1895 \|doi = 10.1007/BF02124929 \|issn = 0025-5831 \|oclc = 10955667990 \|s2cid = 125716327 \|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X] [London, Great Britain: [[Open Court Publishing Company]]. pp. 85–136 (101–152). [[LCCN (identifier) \| LCCN]] [https://lccn.loc.gov/15019614 15019614]. [[OCLC (identifier) \| OCLC]] [https://search.worldcat.org/oclc/817921 817921]. [[OL (identifier) \| OL]] [https://openlibrary.org/books/OL6580010M 6580010M]]	{{<!-- bibliography --> \|journal = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|volume = 46 \|issue = 4 \|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]	{{<!-- bibliography --> \|language = en \|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|publication-place = London, Great Britain \|year = 1915 \|ol = OL6580010M \|lccn = 15019614 \|oclc = 817921 \|id = [''[[Mathematische Annalen]]'' (in German). 46, no. 4. Leipzig: [[B. G. Teubner]] (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). [[Doi (identifier) \| doi]]:[https://doi.org/10.1007%2FBF02124929 10.1007/BF02124929]. [[ISSN (identifier) \| ISSN]] [https://search.worldcat.org/issn/0025-5831 0025-5831]. [[OCLC (identifier) \| OCLC]] [https://search.worldcat.org/oclc/10955667990 10955667990]. [[S2CID (identifier) \| S2CID]] [https://api.semanticscholar.org/CorpusID:125716327 125716327] [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]]	{{<!-- bibliography --> \|id =
{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-07 \|via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]] \|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|archive-date = 2026-04-01	{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11	{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11 \|via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]] \|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|archive-date = 2026-04-01	{{<!-- access -->	{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11	{{<!-- access -->
{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 481 \|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.	{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 85 \|quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.	{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 85 \|quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. \|trans-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.	{{<!-- quote -->	{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 481 \|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. \|trans-quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.	{{<!-- quote --> \|orig-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.
	{{<!-- contribution --> \|contributor-last = Jourdain \|contributor-first = Philip E. B. \|contributor-link = Philip Jourdain \|contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|contribution-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0	{{<!-- translation --> \|translator-last = Jourdain \|translator-first = Philip E. B. \|translator-link = Philip Jourdain \|trans-title = [https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0 Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers]	{{<!-- translation --> \|trans-title = \|translation = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|translation-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0 \|translation-location = \|translation-year = 1915 \|translation-at = pp. 85–136 (101–152) \|translation-language = en \|translation-publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|translation-publication-place = London, Great Britain \|translation-ol = OL6580010M \|translation-lccn = 15019614 \|translation-oclc = 817921 \|trans-quote-page = 85	{{<!-- translation --> \|translator-last = Jourdain \|translator-first = Philip E. B. \|translator-link = Philip Jourdain \|trans-title = [https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre]	{{<!-- translation --> \|trans-title = \|original = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|original-url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|original-at = pp. 481–512 (2–33) \|original-language = de \|original-publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]] \|original-publication-place = Leipzig \|original-publication-date = 7 November 1895 \|original-via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]] \|original-journal = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|original-volume = 46 \|original-issue = 4 \|original-doi = 10.1007/BF02124929 \|original-issn = 0025-5831 \|original-oclc = 10955667990 \|original-s2cid = 125716327 \|original-id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X] \|orig-quote-page = 481
Changes to CS1 template formatting proposed for {{cite translation}}		`\|translation` and `\|translation-url` alias for `\|contribution` and `\|contribution-url` formatted as `\|trans-title` if `\|translation` is alias for `\|contribution`, then restriction for `\|contribution` and `\|journal` co-occurrence must be lifted `\|translation-date` displayed in square brackets, located after `\|orig-date` if `\|translation-publication-place` and `\|translation-place` or `\|translation-location` are defined, then `\|translation-place` or `\|translation-location` is grouped with `\|translation-date` and shown before the title prefixed with "written at" and `\|publication-place` is grouped with the `\|translation-` parameters shown after the title `\|translation-` parameters grouped and displayed in square brackets, located after `\|id`		`\|original` and `\|original-url` alias for `\|contribution` and `\|contribution-url` formatted as `\|trans-title` if `\|original` is alias for `\|contribution`, then restriction for `\|contribution` and `\|journal` co-occurrence must be lifted if `\|original-publication-place` and `\|orig-place` or `\|orig-location` are defined, then `\|orig-place` or `\|orig-location` is grouped with `\|orig-date` and shown before the title prefixed with "written at" and `\|publication-place` is grouped with the `\|original-` parameters shown after the title `\|original-` parameters grouped and displayed in square brackets, located after `\|id`

Notable attempts to repurpose existing citation templates for translation provenance
Original work as translation		Translation as contribution				Translation as work and original work as contribution
{{cite book}}		{{cite book}}		{{cite book}}		{{cite book}}
Cantor, Georg (1915) [Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895]. Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers [Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre]. Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. Retrieved 2026-04-11. p. 85: By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. [Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.] `{{cite book}}`: External link in `\|trans-title=` (help)CS1 maint: date and year (link)		Cantor, Georg (1915) [Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895]. "Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers". Written at Halle. Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Mathematische Annalen. Vol. 46 (4). Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-11 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 85: By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. [Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.]`{{cite book}}`: CS1 maint: date and year (link)		Jourdain, Philip E. B. (1915) [Original composed March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band. 46, Heft. 4:1895]. "Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers". Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). By Cantor, Georg Written at Halle. Mathematische Annalen (in German). Vol. 46 (4). Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327. GDZPPN00225557X. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-11 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. [By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.]		Cantor, Georg (1915) [Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895]. "Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre" [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Written at Halle. Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers. Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 481–512 (2–33). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-11. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. [By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.]`{{cite book}}`: CS1 maint: date and year (link)
Issues	Benefits	Issues	Benefits	Issues	Benefits	Issues	Benefits
template error: `{{cite book}}: External link in \|trans-title=` counter-intuitive to specify original work in `\|trans-title` and published translation in `\|title` author isn’t explicitly associated with the original work specified in `\|trans-title` `\|trans-title` doesn’t provide a translation appropriate to the language of the article `\|trans-title` is not attributable to `\|translator-` no details about source of original work for which the translation was published `\|trans-quote` is not attributable to `\|translator-` `\|trans-quote` doesn’t provide a translation appropriate to the language of the article	bibliography references the source which is written in the language of the article `\|trans-title` and `\|trans-quote` are obtained from the same source	a translation is not a contribution to the original work unclear whether `\|orig-date` relates to book or contribution (needs to relate to book) unclear whether `\|date` / `\|year` relates to book or contribution (needs to relate to contribution) `\|location` relates to contribution rather than work being referenced (associated with author-*) duplication of name in `\|contribution` and `\|trans-title` `\|series`, `\|volume` and `\|issue` are duplicated in `\|orig-date` minimal details about source of work being referenced bibliography relates to contribution rather than work being referenced unclear that `\|location`, `\|title`, `\|trans-title`, `\|series` and `\|volume` relate to separate work (nested citations, using adapted CS2 template) `\|trans-quote` doesn’t provide a translation appropriate to the language of the article	author is correctly associated to both contribution and work being referenced bibliography references the source which is written in the language of the article	a translation is not a contribution to the original work unclear whether `\|orig-date` relates to book or contribution (needs to relate to book) duplication of name in `\|contribution` and `\|trans-title` `\|series`, `\|volume` and `\|issue` are duplicated in `\|orig-date` minimal details about translation source	Editor/translator `\|contributor` attached to translation work Author and location is attached to original work Quote is from original work in foreign language with translated quote in English	the original work is not a contribution to the translation `\|contribution-lang` isn’t a parameter for specifying the contribution language `\|quote` relates to `\|contribution` and `\|trans-quote` relates to the work being referenced pages in `\|at` & `\|quote-page` relate to contribution but not the work being referenced `\|contribution-page` and `\|trans-quote-page` aren’t parameters	`\|orig-date` relates to contribution and `\|date` / `\|year` relates to work being referenced `\|location` relates to original work as contribution author is correctly associated to both contribution and work being referenced translator is associated with the work being referenced work being referenced is appropriate to the language in which the article is written
Parameters		Parameters		Parameters		Parameters
{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|orig-date = Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895		{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|orig-date = Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895		{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|orig-date = Original composed March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band. 46, Heft. 4:1895		{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|orig-date = Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895
{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152) \|title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0 \|trans-title = [https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre]		{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152) \|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|trans-title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers		{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33) \|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|trans-title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers		{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33) \|contribution = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|contribution-url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|trans-contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers
{{<!-- bibliography --> \|language = en \|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|publication-place = London, Great Britain \|year = 1915 \|ol = OL6580010M \|lccn = 15019614 \|oclc = 817921		{{<!-- bibliography --> \|series = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|volume = '''46''' (4) \|language = en \|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|publication-place = London, Great Britain \|year = 1915 \|ol = OL6580010M \|lccn = 15019614 \|oclc = 817921		{{<!-- bibliography --> \|series = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|volume = '''46''' (4) \|language = de \|publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]] \|publication-place = Leipzig \|publication-date = 7 November 1895 \|year = 1915 \|doi = 10.1007/BF02124929 \|issn = 0025-5831 \|oclc = 10955667990 \|s2cid = 125716327 \|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]		{{<!-- bibliography --> \|language = en \|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|publication-place = London, Great Britain \|year = 1915 \|ol = OL6580010M \|lccn = 15019614 \|oclc = 817921
{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11		{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11 \|via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]] \|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|archive-date = 2026-04-01 \|url-status = live		{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11 \|via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]] \|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|archive-date = 2026-04-01 \|url-status = live		{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11 \|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|archive-date = 2026-04-01 \|url-status = live
{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 85 \|quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. \|trans-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.		{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 85 \|quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. \|trans-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.		{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 481 \|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. \|trans-quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.		{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 481 \|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. \|trans-quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.
{{<!-- translation --> \|translator-last = Jourdain \|translator-first = Philip E. B. \|translator-link = Philip Jourdain		{{<!-- translation --> \|translator-last = Jourdain \|translator-first = Philip E. B. \|translator-link = Philip Jourdain \|contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|contribution-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0		{{<!-- translation --> \|contributor-last = Jourdain \|contributor-first = Philip E. B. \|contributor-link = Philip Jourdain \|contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|contribution-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0		{{<!-- translation --> \|translator-last = Jourdain \|translator-first = Philip E. B. \|translator-link = Philip Jourdain \|title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0

Mattmill30 (talk) 12:41, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I've been through this thread but one thing is not clear. What is translated work and what is original work? let's say i am citing a book written in French, i will use {{Cite book}} with all needy parameter. |title= will be in french, |url= will wrap the title. |trans-title= is only for translation of that French title to English language (Because our readers are english), I can use language=fr to classify this citation is in French. If i am citing same book (translated) in English, I will use that english title because that will be the title, I don't need trans-title because this title is already in English, nor will i mention any french title anywhere. I can distinguish contributors/authors/editors/publishers with respective parameters.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 19:07, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In the context of provenance for a translated quotation with attribution to the author of the foreign original work, pursuant to MOS:FOREIGNQUOTE, the original work would be "the original, untranslated text", for which editors are instructed to "provide a reference for it or include it, as appropriate", and with consideration of WP:NONENG the translated work would be "translations published by reliable sources".

As expressed in the opening sentence, this proposal is intended for citing "a published translation and it's foreign language source" with provenance, and therefore is not intended for translations by Wikipedians or machine translations.

Your example doesn't relate to {{translated blockquote}} with |source, where both quotations should be referenced (WP:ANNOTATION), but in which both the foreign and translated works are attributed to the same author.

There are at-least 5 types of sources possible for {{translated blockquote}} citations, in order of precedence: interlinear gloss; translation with attribution; translation without attribution; Wikipedian translation and machine translation.

If an interlinear gloss was to be quoted, it would be appropriate to provide a single {{cite book}} reference at the end of the {{translated blockquote|source}} parameter for both the foreign and translation quotations, e.g. The Interlinear Bible, as a primary source.

In the exampled {{translated blockquote}}, the citation ^[3] is for a published translation with attribution (the Edition Notice reads "By Georg Cantor. Translated and provided with an introduction and notes, by Philip E. B. Jourdain"). Therefore it is also a primary source because it claims to be an authentic and accurate rendering of the original, by attributing it's authorship to the author of the original work. But unlike the interlinear gloss a translation with attribution does not contain a copy of the full original text, so therefore in order to satisfy WP:CITE—using current templates—two citations without a provenance relationship would have to be referenced, one at the end of each quotation.
{{cite translation}} addresses this circumstance by providing a single citation which records the provenance relationship between the two primary sources.

In the case of a primary source foreign work and a secondary source translation, then two citations would be required, one referenced against each quotation, as is the norm; demonstrated in my example for the current method as ^[1] and ^[2].

Mattmill30 (talk) 21:21, 16 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

You should cite what you see. If you have the translation you should cite that using the normal template, if you're reading the original you should cite that. If the original is from 1898 but the translation you have is from 2015 then cite the 2015 translation. Only cite the 1898 original if you have the 1898 original and not a different version. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 19:43, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Let's say you have a book originally written in French. These are the possibilities:

Goscinny, René; Uderzo, Albert (April 1983) [1979]. Astérix chez les Belges [Asterix among the Belgians] (in French). Paris: Dargaud. ISBN 2-205-01150-2. C83/13017.
Goscinny, René; Uderzo, Albert (1985) [1979 and 1980]. Asterix in Belgium. Translated by Bell, Anthea; Hockridge, Derek. Sevenoaks: Hodder Dargaud. ISBN 0-340-27753-X.

WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT applies. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:19, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In the given example citation ^[3] both the original and the translation are freely accessible.

However, a separate proposal to introduce |trans-date (in contrast to |translation-date) to existing citation templates would enable the recording of similar bibliographic information to that which is recorded by |orig-date but for a known first translation edition (primary source). Which would invite a future submission by someone with a copy of the translation edition to convert the citation to be fully populated {{cite translation}}. Mattmill30 (talk) 16:43, 18 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Here in Wikipedia, templates aren't created from scratch. they are motivated from various existing citation style, that's why we have Cs1 and Cs2, also we have Vancouver style. If you want to introduce new parameter, You must come with strong reason. we cannot keep parameter just for record purposes. |orig-date= is here to distinguish between original publication date and publication date of the version used in reference, Not for record purpose.––KEmel49(📝,📋) 16:59, 19 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure why you have assumed an authoritative position of "here in Wikipedia", given in your last response you had to ask "what is translated work and what is original work?" Which I then provided you by way of reference to the MoS and WP policies here in Wikipedia.

So, before I respond substantively, I'll wait for you to provide supporting evidence that citation parameters are "not for record purposes". But I will note that I have avoided going off-topic by emphasising that "a separate proposal to introduce |trans-date" would be required.

However, WP:SAYWHERE would support the introduction of |trans-date to existing citation templates as a complementary parameter for recording the date of first publication of the translation edition from which the |trans-title and |trans-quote information was obtained. Mattmill30 (talk) 00:05, 20 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Please make provisions for correct handling of infixes in last names

This issue pervades multiple templates in various languages.

The parameter lastname does not allow for correct alphabetical ordering of last names which include infixes. In German, French, Dutch (but not Flemish), and other languages, infixes are ignored; examples:
French:

Bois, M. du
Dubois, M.

Dutch and Flemish:

De Vreeze, M. (Flemish)
Devreeze, M.
Vreeze, M. de (Dutch)

combined:

Bois, M. du
De Vreeze, M.
Devreeze, M.
Dubois, M.
Vreeze, M. de

Can a parameter infix-lastname be added?

Or would it be better to instate something similar to DEFAULTSORT (used for correct ordering of pages in automated lists) for all templates that allow lastname? CvZ (talk) 13:24, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Which automated lists of citations are you thinking of? Kanguole 13:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Journal special edition?

For {{citejournal}}: If a journal has a special edition devoted to a specific topic, would we add that into the "journal" field or is the "edition" field flexible enough to allow it to go in there (although the documentation suggests it is for further printings or other releases. Emperor (talk) 13:55, 17 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Neither, it goes in |issue= if it even needs to be included at all. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:46, 17 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

But as Headbomb hints, usually it is not worthy of inclusion in the citation. If it is included, it could go into |department= to avoid clogging up the issue number with non-numeric information. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:32, 17 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Citing a chapter with no author, in a book with both author and editor

What is one to do when we want to cite a chapter of a book or an entry in a reference work, and the work has both credited author(s) and editor(s), but the chapter/entry in question has no credited author or editor?

What we want is:

Jones, Daniel (2011). Roach, Peter; Setter, Jane; Esling, John (eds.). "abacus". Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary (18th ed.). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-15255-6.

or perhaps

"abacus". Jones, Daniel (2011). Roach, Peter; Setter, Jane; Esling, John (eds.). Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary (18th ed.). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-15255-6.

{{citation
|last=Jones
|first=Daniel
|editor1-last=Roach
|editor1-first=Peter
|editor2-last=Setter
|editor2-first=Jane
|editor3-last=Esling
|editor3-first=John
|title=abacus
|year=2011
|work=Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary
|edition=18th
|publisher=Cambridge University Press
|isbn=978-0-521-15255-6
|mode=cs1
}}

gives the first, but it emits the CS1 maint: work parameter with ISBN error; whereas

{{cite encyclopedia
|last=Jones
|first=Daniel
|editor1-last=Roach
|editor1-first=Peter
|editor2-last=Setter
|editor2-first=Jane
|editor3-last=Esling
|editor3-first=John
|entry=abacus
|year=2011
|encyclopedia=Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary
|edition=18th
|publisher=Cambridge University Press
|isbn=978-0-521-15255-6
}}

gives

Jones, Daniel (2011). "abacus". In Roach, Peter; Setter, Jane; Esling, John (eds.). Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary (18th ed.). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-15255-6.

which is not what we want, as it looks like Jones wrote just this entry in a book featuring a bunch of entries by other authors compiled by Roach et al., when in fact all four of them were responsible for all of the book.

{{cite journal
|last=Jones
|first=Daniel
|editor1-last=Roach
|editor1-first=Peter
|editor2-last=Setter
|editor2-first=Jane
|editor3-last=Esling
|editor3-first=John
|title=abacus
|year=2011
|work=Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary
|edition=18th
|publisher=Cambridge University Press
|isbn=978-0-521-15255-6
}}

gives the first, but is obviously non-semantic and gives the wrong class (journal) and metadata (info:ofi fmt:kev:mtx:journal).

We could just write

"abacus". {{cite book|...}}

for the second, but this will not come with the benefit of built-in error handling or well-formed metadata. Nardog (talk) 16:32, 19 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand your problem. If no author is given, don't give one:
Jones, Daniel; Roach, Peter; Setter, Jane; Esling, John, eds. (2011). "abacus". Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary (18th ed.). Cambridge University Press. p. 1. ISBN 978-0-521-15255-6.
-- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:37, 20 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

There is an issue with describing a work that has both an author and editors. (In this case the original author was responsible for the original work and the editors updated it in later editions.) Kanguole 13:57, 20 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. Nardog (talk) 00:19, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Do we know that Jones wrote the entry on "abacus" as we see it in 2011? If yes, cite him as author; if not, don't. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:40, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how that's relevant. Figuring that out for every entry is not at all realistic, or meaningful. Jones is not credited as an editor; he is the sole author. If not to provide accurate bibliographic information so readers can locate the work, what is the point of a citation? Nardog (talk) 00:51, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If he is the sole author, then he wrote every chapter. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 03:34, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I still don't understand the problem. If Jones was/is the author, why did Nardog reject his own 2nd proposal? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:47, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Because it looks like only Jones was responsible for the entry, and the editors were not as involved in writing it, when in fact (or according to the colophon etc.) both Jones and the three editors were responsible for the whole book, including the entry. They need to appear together, or it gives the wrong impression about the division of labor. Nardog (talk) 22:23, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

But if accurate bibliographic information so readers can locate the work is the aim, the 2nd proposal works fine. If you're not happy about a template's rendering, you don't have to use it – it's not obligatory. Or you could use the catch-all {{Wikicite}} for a free-format citation. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:36, 26 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

'Quote', in sources like podcasts

Regarding {{Cite podcast}}, but possibly applicable elsewhere: If including a quote from a specific guest on a podcast—notably different to the host, who is forefronted as the author by the template—is there a way to denote the specific person who we are quoting? — HTGS (talk) 23:53, 19 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If something can't be done within the template, do it outside:

<ref>{{Cite podcast|author=The respondent|interviewer=Podcast host|title=The Podcast|url=http://example.com}} "Podcast host: 'What do you think?' The respondent: "I haven't thought about it.{{'"}}</ref>

-> ^[1] -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:54, 20 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ The respondent. "The Podcast" (Podcast). Interviewed by Podcast host. "Podcast host: 'What do you think?' The respondent: "I haven't thought about it.'"

Discussion at Template talk:Cite video game § Citing multiple consecutive lines of dialogue

You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Cite video game § Citing multiple consecutive lines of dialogue. Specifically, this is in relation to that template's use of {{cite book}} and the quote parameter in particular. Gommeh ^{(talk! sign!)} 14:11, 20 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:Verifiability § Content drift

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Verifiability § Content drift. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 21:31, 20 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Ebook Documentation

I'm a bit flummoxed that their seems to be no extant documentation on citing ebooks. They've been around longer than Wikipedia has, surely this is a common enough query that we should have a little guidance? Although there is a redirect from Template:Cite_ebook to Template:Cite_book, that page contains nothing useful on the subject. The only thing of value I was able to find (via Google, not WP's search) was this discussion thread deep in the archive.

If the status quo has not changed since then it's certainly not ideal, but still, the best-practices should be properly documented. I put together this quick draft which summarizes @Jonesey95's suggestions; input appreciated if anyone has better ideas.

Citing ebooks Ebooks can be difficult to cite, as they do not always have stable page numbers to reference like a printed book would. PDF scans of a printed book will usually have the original page numbers visible, and can be cited identically to the print copy. Some ebooks in common formats like epub can also have page numbers embedded, though your ebook reader may not display these by default. You can tell if the numbers your software displays are "page numbers" because the page total should be equal to the page count of the print edition. More commonly, ebook readers will instead display a "location" number, which is generated dynamically and not consistent from user to user. This is because factors like screen size and display settings of your ereader software or device will cause the text to be split into "screens" differently. These numbers are not useful for citations. In cases where a true page number from embedded metadata or a print edition is not available, you have two options: Chapter citations If the book has chapters, you can include the chapter where the relevant content is found with the `\|chapter=` parameter. Note this should use the chapter title, not a number (unless the chapters are indicated only with numbers, in which case that is the title: eg. "3."). While not as precise as a page number, this will still aid readers in locating your citations. <example of chapter cite> Quotes Another option, and probably the best way, is to actually quote the relevant content with the `\|quote=` parameter. Note that this should be a short quotation, and need not neccessarily include all the relevant content you relied on. The text of the quotation will aid readers in locating the relevant section of the ebook. <example of quote cite> Ideally, these two methods can be used together to craft a citation that is clear and easy to locate in either print or digital editions of the work. <example>

One nagging question for me is presented by [the Epub spec], which indicates static page boundaries MAY correspond to a print edition, or may be exclusive to the ebook. I'm not sure how much this is used in practice, but it means potentially a page number from an ebook edition could be useful for a citation, but only if you also have the ebook edition. Thus it seems to me it's important to indicate somehow that an ebook release is being referenced, but I'm not clear on how. |edition= seems an obvious choice, but I think that would be considered a mis-use (one might have an ebook version of a 2nd Edition).

There's also not an obvious place to insert these best practices in the Template:cite_book page. particularly considering all the transclusions; this won't be of much use if it's buried several headings deep. Frankly I think the organization of this page is a mess overall; I would call the table of parameters the "meat" of the article, yet that's buried under a disclosure triangle and irrelevant headings at Usage>Vertical formats>Full. Template:citation at least has sections for different types of media already so it could make more sense there. Or, maybe a dedicated template+doc page for ebooks would be justified, but scanning the parameters of cite_book I'm seeing a pretty small number that are irrelevant to ebooks so I doubt that makes sense. Walkersam (talk) 22:17, 22 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Walkersam: See WP:EBOOK from the guideline WP:Citing sources. If you want to expand on the guideline that is more expansive, the traditional way is with an essay. If the essay is well written, rules-based, common sense and useful, linking to it from the guideline can often work without too much resistance. -- GreenC 04:32, 26 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Way to silence CS1 maint: unrecognized language?

As an introduction, I'm a new editor here, but I recently began perusing through CS1 maintenance categories.

I found Category:CS1 maint: unrecognized language, and noticed that there's not a proper way to silence the error for legitimate languages that aren't recognized as ISO-639-1 or -2. I did a quick search on this page and its archives after being sent here from the teahouse, and I couldn't find anything really mentioning this, so no idea if consensus has been reached that this is a bad idea.

Obviously this is a pretty low priority thing, being maintenance messages that are automatically hidden, but I feel like it'd be better to have a way to remove pages from this category, that way editors can focus on fixing citations with actual improper languages used.

For example this is how it could work (taken from Bade language and apologies for the juvenile formatting - writing this in a pinch),

	Input	Output
Current	{{Cite book \|...\|language=Bade<!--bde does not work as of 2025-05-04-->, en, ha \|...}}	(in Bade, English, and Hausa) (maint error)
New	{{Cite book \|...\|language=((Bade)), en, ha \|...}}	(in Bade, English, and Hausa)

The module would 'recognize' (better described as ignore) languages formatted with double parenthesis surrounding them. Obviously, this comes with some drawbacks, but I think that if an editor were to know about this, they probably would also know how to format this parameter? Hopefully.. This seems to already exist for the Category:CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list page as well.

Apologies if this isn't the right page to discuss this topic on, or how changes like this start. TheGrapeEscape (talk) 22:50, 24 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

This is either Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration, or something more fundamental. i.e. the MediaWiki software itself. I suspect the second one: since there is no Bade Wikipedia, there's little need to set up that language code/name pair. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:43, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I agree that it'd be too much unnecessary work to add support for language codes, since that involves documenting them all. At first, I thought the choice to not include ISO-639-3 was for parity with the rest of MediaWiki, but it's definitely because there are way too many languages under it to manage.

Instead, I was suggesting that we allow the error to be silenced by wrapping it in double parenthesis, meant to be used for languages that don't have enough international speakers. It's possible to misuse something like that, but when going through articles in this category, I noticed a lot of comments similar to the one documented in the table. So, editors are aware of the language not having a code recognized, most of the time. Also, I bet someone could probably run a script through a dump of every page to find uses of them being used improperly? There are currently about 500 pages in the category, but I feel like there have to be way more sources using local languages and dialects like this, where editors were unsure if they could put the language in the template, or just didn't know to add it.

I'll have to look through the config more, but I actually ended up noticing another thing somewhat related to this: Whatever code in the module that does the categorizing doesn't recognize sr-el as a valid language, despite it being in the configuration (and probably docs), mapped to display as "Serbian (Latin script)" - as opposed to Cyrillic, on line 1311. There are probably other errors like this, but I just thought I'd mention it since I caught this particular one. Not sure what would need to be changed to fix this particular one, but I'll probably dig through the scripts later today to see if I can find where the categories are added. TheGrapeEscape (talk) 17:55, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Cite web

{{Cite web}} doesn't let you cite two url's, unlike {{cite book}} which does. Can you add this, please? For example, I'm trying to link to a Sotheby's auction item. This info has two links, the item itself and the general auction. The template doesn't let me do that. On the other hand, with a book, I can link to both the chapter and the book itself. Viriditas (talk) 20:43, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

You could use |at= -> "General auction". Item details. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:54, 26 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Will do. Viriditas (talk) 03:11, 26 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Just understand the URL in the |at= is not attached to |archive-url= so when it dies, a bot won't fix it. Other processes and reports may skip it. The general auction seems gratuitous .. is it verifying information not available in the item link? Place your key URL in the |url= field, it will be more secure from the ravages of entropy. To make it robust, use two cite web templates.-- GreenC 04:21, 26 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Cite sign should accept a location parameter with numbers, or explain why it does't

{{Cite sign}} does not accept a location parameter with numbers. I found this example in User:Arbeh/draft/Harry Bowers.

Original: The Photographic Billboard Show (Exhibition announcement postcard). 10 × 10 foot photographs displayed on Market Street billboards in San Francisco between Castro and Dolores Streets: Eyes and Ears Foundation. 1979 [September 18 – October 15, 1979].{{cite sign}}: CS1 maint: location (link)
((...)) doesn't help: The Photographic Billboard Show (Exhibition announcement postcard). ((10 × 10 foot photographs displayed on Market Street billboards in San Francisco between Castro and Dolores Streets)): Eyes and Ears Foundation. 1979 [September 18 – October 15, 1979].{{cite sign}}: CS1 maint: location (link)
Spell 10 as "Ten" fixes it: The Photographic Billboard Show (Exhibition announcement postcard). Ten × ten foot photographs displayed on Market Street billboards in San Francisco between Castro and Dolores Streets: Eyes and Ears Foundation. 1979 [September 18 – October 15, 1979].

The real story is that |location= expects a city, not a street address or "In the hall of the mountain king" or whatever, but it should be explained. —Anomalocaris (talk) 03:54, 26 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Were these billboards up for a short period in 1979? As in they not there now. Sources for verification have to exist so other editors can check them, if the billboard weren't a permanent installation whether |location= is correct or not is rather a secondary issue. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:13, 26 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The |location= parameter is for the location of the publisher. So, where is the headquarters for Eyes and Ears Foundation? Presumably it's in SF, CA; so use |location=San Francisco, California. This is explained at Template:Cite sign#csdoc_location. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:15, 26 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Accept-as-written markup for archive url?

On the Wayback Machine's Wikipedia page, there is a source (#8) citing one of the oldest archives, and it dates to 1995, which triggers a cs1 error even though the url works and is legitimate. As far as I know there is no way to use accept-this-as-written markup for the archive-url parameter. Is there a way this could be added or some other way to fix the error? Thanks. BlaqWiedow (talk) 04:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

False positive detection of deprecated archiving service

The url https://web.archive.org/web/20170929152253/https://www.npmjs.com/package/archive.is is detected as being deprecated, I'm guessing because of the 'archive.is' part, it's entirely unrelated. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:10, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

already been fixed in the sandbox:

{{cite web/new |title=Unofficial Node.js API for archive.is |website=npmjs |url=https://www.npmjs.com/package/archive.is |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170929152253/https://www.npmjs.com/package/archive.is |archive-date=2017-09-29}}

"Unofficial Node.js API for archive.is". npmjs. Archived from the original on 2017-09-29.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:35, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Cantor, Georg (March 1895) [Translation published 1915]. Written at Halle. Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Mathematische Annalen (in German). Vol. 46 (4). Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327. GDZPPN00225557X [London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M]. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-11 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. [By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.]

[ref1-1] Cantor, Georg (March 1895). Written at Halle. "Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre" [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Mathematische Annalen (in German). 46 (4). Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327. GDZPPN00225557X. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-07 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.

[ref2-2] Jourdain, Philip E. B. (1915) [Original composed in German, March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895]. "Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers". Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre (PDF). By Cantor, Georg Written at Halle. Mathematische Annalen. Vol. 46 (4). London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. Retrieved 2026-04-11. p. 85: By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.

[3] The respondent. "The Podcast" (Podcast). Interviewed by Podcast host. "Podcast host: 'What do you think?' The respondent: "I haven't thought about it.'"

[1]

[2]

[

[

[

[1]

Separate references for original journal and published translation		{{cite translation}}
{{cite journal}}	{{cite book}}	Original work is citation work		(alternative) Published translation is citation work
Cantor, Georg (March 1895). Written at Halle. "Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre" [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Mathematische Annalen (in German). 46 (4). Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327. GDZPPN00225557X. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-07 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.	Jourdain, Philip E. B. (1915) [Original composed in German, March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895]. "Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers". Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre (PDF). By Cantor, Georg Written at Halle. Mathematische Annalen. Vol. 46 (4). London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. Retrieved 2026-04-11. p. 85: By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.	Cantor, Georg (March 1895) [Translation published 1915]. Written at Halle. Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Mathematische Annalen (in German). Vol. 46 (4). Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327. GDZPPN00225557X [London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M]. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-11 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. [By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.] `{{cite book}}`: External link in `\|trans-title=` (help)		Cantor, Georg (1915) [Original composed March 1895. Written at Halle]. Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers [Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre]. Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. [Mathematische Annalen (in German). 46 (4). Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327 GDZPPN00225557X]. Retrieved 2026-04-11. p. 85: By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. [Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.] `{{cite book}}`: External link in `\|trans-title=` (help)
Issues	Issues	Issues	Benefits	Issues	Benefits
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Parameters	Parameters	Parameters		Parameters
Parameters	Parameters	Current method for achievement	Changes to CS1 template parameters proposed for {{cite translation}}	Current method for achievement	Changes to CS1 template parameters proposed for {{cite translation}}
{{<!-- author --> \|last = Cantor \|first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|date = March 1895	{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|orig-date = Original composed in German, March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895	{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|orig-date = Translation published 1915	{{<!-- author --> \|translation-date = Translation published 1915	{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|orig-date = Original composed March 1895. Written at Halle	{{<!-- author --> \|orig-location = Halle \|orig-date = Original composed March 1895
{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33) \|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|trans-title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers	{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152) \|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf	{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33) \|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf	{{<!-- work -->	{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152) \|title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0	{{<!-- work -->
{{<!-- bibliography --> \|journal = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|volume = 46 \|issue = 4 \|language = de \|publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]] \|publication-place = Leipzig \|publication-date = 7 November 1895 \|doi = 10.1007/BF02124929 \|issn = 0025-5831 \|oclc = 10955667990 \|s2cid = 125716327 \|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]	{{<!-- bibliography --> \|series = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|volume = 46, no. 4 \|language = en \|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|publication-place = London, Great Britain \|year = 1915 \|ol = OL6580010M \|lccn = 15019614 \|oclc = 817921	{{<!-- bibliography --> \|series = ''[[Mathematische Annalen]]'' \|volume = '''46''' (4) \|language = de \|publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]] \|publication-place = Leipzig \|publication-date = 7 November 1895 \|doi = 10.1007/BF02124929 \|issn = 0025-5831 \|oclc = 10955667990 \|s2cid = 125716327 \|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X] [London, Great Britain: [[Open Court Publishing Company]]. pp. 85–136 (101–152). [[LCCN (identifier) \| LCCN]] [https://lccn.loc.gov/15019614 15019614]. [[OCLC (identifier) \| OCLC]] [https://search.worldcat.org/oclc/817921 817921]. [[OL (identifier) \| OL]] [https://openlibrary.org/books/OL6580010M 6580010M]]	{{<!-- bibliography --> \|journal = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|volume = 46 \|issue = 4 \|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]	{{<!-- bibliography --> \|language = en \|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|publication-place = London, Great Britain \|year = 1915 \|ol = OL6580010M \|lccn = 15019614 \|oclc = 817921 \|id = [''[[Mathematische Annalen]]'' (in German). 46, no. 4. Leipzig: [[B. G. Teubner]] (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). [[Doi (identifier) \| doi]]:[https://doi.org/10.1007%2FBF02124929 10.1007/BF02124929]. [[ISSN (identifier) \| ISSN]] [https://search.worldcat.org/issn/0025-5831 0025-5831]. [[OCLC (identifier) \| OCLC]] [https://search.worldcat.org/oclc/10955667990 10955667990]. [[S2CID (identifier) \| S2CID]] [https://api.semanticscholar.org/CorpusID:125716327 125716327] [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]]	{{<!-- bibliography --> \|id =
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{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 481 \|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.	{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 85 \|quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.	{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 85 \|quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. \|trans-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.	{{<!-- quote -->	{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 481 \|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. \|trans-quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.	{{<!-- quote --> \|orig-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.
	{{<!-- contribution --> \|contributor-last = Jourdain \|contributor-first = Philip E. B. \|contributor-link = Philip Jourdain \|contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|contribution-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0	{{<!-- translation --> \|translator-last = Jourdain \|translator-first = Philip E. B. \|translator-link = Philip Jourdain \|trans-title = [https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0 Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers]	{{<!-- translation --> \|trans-title = \|translation = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|translation-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0 \|translation-location = \|translation-year = 1915 \|translation-at = pp. 85–136 (101–152) \|translation-language = en \|translation-publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|translation-publication-place = London, Great Britain \|translation-ol = OL6580010M \|translation-lccn = 15019614 \|translation-oclc = 817921 \|trans-quote-page = 85	{{<!-- translation --> \|translator-last = Jourdain \|translator-first = Philip E. B. \|translator-link = Philip Jourdain \|trans-title = [https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre]	{{<!-- translation --> \|trans-title = \|original = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|original-url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|original-at = pp. 481–512 (2–33) \|original-language = de \|original-publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]] \|original-publication-place = Leipzig \|original-publication-date = 7 November 1895 \|original-via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]] \|original-journal = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|original-volume = 46 \|original-issue = 4 \|original-doi = 10.1007/BF02124929 \|original-issn = 0025-5831 \|original-oclc = 10955667990 \|original-s2cid = 125716327 \|original-id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X] \|orig-quote-page = 481
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Original work as translation		Translation as contribution				Translation as work and original work as contribution
{{cite book}}		{{cite book}}		{{cite book}}		{{cite book}}
Cantor, Georg (1915) [Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895]. Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers [Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre]. Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. Retrieved 2026-04-11. p. 85: By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. [Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.] `{{cite book}}`: External link in `\|trans-title=` (help)CS1 maint: date and year (link)		Cantor, Georg (1915) [Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895]. "Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers". Written at Halle. Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Mathematische Annalen. Vol. 46 (4). Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 85–136 (101–152). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-11 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 85: By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. [Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.]`{{cite book}}`: CS1 maint: date and year (link)		Jourdain, Philip E. B. (1915) [Original composed March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band. 46, Heft. 4:1895]. "Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers". Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). By Cantor, Georg Written at Halle. Mathematische Annalen (in German). Vol. 46 (4). Leipzig: B. G. Teubner (published 7 November 1895). pp. 481–512 (2–33). doi:10.1007/BF02124929. ISSN 0025-5831. OCLC 10955667990. S2CID 125716327. GDZPPN00225557X. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-11 – via Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. [By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.]		Cantor, Georg (1915) [Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895]. "Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre" [Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers] (PDF). Written at Halle. Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers. Translated by Jourdain, Philip E. B. London, Great Britain: Open Court Publishing Company. pp. 481–512 (2–33). LCCN 15019614. OCLC 817921. OL 6580010M. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2026-04-01. Retrieved 2026-04-11. p. 481: Unter einer ‚Menge' verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung M von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten m unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente' von M genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. [By an “aggregate” (Menge) we are to understand any collection into a whole (Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen) M of definite and separate objects m of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.]`{{cite book}}`: CS1 maint: date and year (link)
Issues	Benefits	Issues	Benefits	Issues	Benefits	Issues	Benefits
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Parameters		Parameters		Parameters		Parameters
{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|orig-date = Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895		{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|orig-date = Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895		{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|orig-date = Original composed March 1895. Mathematische Annalen, Band. 46, Heft. 4:1895		{{<!-- author --> \|author-last = Cantor \|author-first = Georg \|author-link = Georg Cantor \|location = Halle \|orig-date = Mathematische Annalen, Band 46, Heft 4:1895
{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152) \|title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0 \|trans-title = [https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre]		{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 85–136 (101–152) \|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|trans-title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers		{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33) \|title = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|trans-title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers		{{<!-- work --> \|at = pp. 481–512 (2–33) \|contribution = Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre \|contribution-url = https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|trans-contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers
{{<!-- bibliography --> \|language = en \|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|publication-place = London, Great Britain \|year = 1915 \|ol = OL6580010M \|lccn = 15019614 \|oclc = 817921		{{<!-- bibliography --> \|series = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|volume = '''46''' (4) \|language = en \|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|publication-place = London, Great Britain \|year = 1915 \|ol = OL6580010M \|lccn = 15019614 \|oclc = 817921		{{<!-- bibliography --> \|series = [[Mathematische Annalen]] \|volume = '''46''' (4) \|language = de \|publisher = [[B. G. Teubner]] \|publication-place = Leipzig \|publication-date = 7 November 1895 \|year = 1915 \|doi = 10.1007/BF02124929 \|issn = 0025-5831 \|oclc = 10955667990 \|s2cid = 125716327 \|id = [https://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?GDZPPN00225557X GDZPPN00225557X]		{{<!-- bibliography --> \|language = en \|publisher = [[Open Court Publishing Company]] \|publication-place = London, Great Britain \|year = 1915 \|ol = OL6580010M \|lccn = 15019614 \|oclc = 817921
{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11		{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11 \|via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]] \|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|archive-date = 2026-04-01 \|url-status = live		{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11 \|via = [[Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum]] \|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|archive-date = 2026-04-01 \|url-status = live		{{<!-- access --> \|access-date = 2026-04-11 \|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20260401224034/https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/download/pdf/PPN235181684_0046/LOG_0044.pdf \|archive-date = 2026-04-01 \|url-status = live
{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 85 \|quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. \|trans-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.		{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 85 \|quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M. \|trans-quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen.		{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 481 \|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. \|trans-quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.		{{<!-- quote --> \|quote-page = 481 \|quote = Unter einer ‚Menge‘ verstehen wir jede Zusammenfassung ''M'' von bestimmten wohlunterschiedenen Objecten ''m'' unsrer Anschauung oder unseres Denkens (welche die ‚Elemente‘ von ''M'' genannt werden) zu einem Ganzen. \|trans-quote = By an “aggregate” (''Menge'') we are to understand any collection into a whole (''Zusammenfassung zu einem Ganzen'') M of definite and separate objects ''m'' of our intuition or our thought. These objects are called the “elements” of M.
{{<!-- translation --> \|translator-last = Jourdain \|translator-first = Philip E. B. \|translator-link = Philip Jourdain		{{<!-- translation --> \|translator-last = Jourdain \|translator-first = Philip E. B. \|translator-link = Philip Jourdain \|contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|contribution-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0		{{<!-- translation --> \|contributor-last = Jourdain \|contributor-first = Philip E. B. \|contributor-link = Philip Jourdain \|contribution = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|contribution-url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0		{{<!-- translation --> \|translator-last = Jourdain \|translator-first = Philip E. B. \|translator-link = Philip Jourdain \|title = Contributions to the founding of the theory of transfinite numbers \|url = https://archive.org/details/contributionstof00cant_0